15 replies to this topic

[DonaldMReif]

When a resort upgrades a chairlift, does it save money when infrastructure from the original lift is reused on the new lift? I'm saying this when looking at both of Vail's Doppelmayr high speed six packs - the Mountaintop Express lift and the Avanti Express lift. Both lifts replaced aging Doppelmayr high speed quads. However, as shown by some remarks on Vail's blog page, the Avanti Express lift reuses most of the towers from the original lift, just with new wider six-pack crossarms on top. As I remember, the Mountaintop Express lift doesn't reuse any of its predecessor's infrastructure because the lift runs a slightly different alignment from the original.

So my question is, with the Avanti Express lift in mind, when a resort upgrades a lift and reuses infrastructure like tower tubes, does it save money by not needing to purchase as much new infrastructure?

[Lift Dinosaur]

Yes.
Dino

[NHskier13]

put it this way : do you save money by growing your own vegetables or by buying more at the grocer?

[ss20]

One of the most interesting reuses I've seen is at Butternut (MA). In the 1990s they replaced their 1963 Carlevaro-Savio double with a quad. So now, 52 years after being originally installed, those same towers are supporting double the weight of the original lift

[vons]

Lattice towers are very strong, are usually stiffer than their tube counterparts and use far less material; plus if the specifications can handle the load why not reuse.

[passengerpigeon]

ss20, on 04 August 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

So now, 52 years after being originally installed, those same towers are supporting double the weight of the original lift

52 years is nothing compared to the Planpraz gondola at Chamonix. Before it was replaced in 2010, it reused the bottom terminal building and 6 concrete towers from the original 1928 aerial tram.

This post has been edited by passengerpigeon: 07 August 2015 - 07:22 AM

[JSteigs]

Don't forget about the cost of the foundations. Concrete, rebar, bolt cages, forming material, labor and equipment rental add to the cost of a new tower location.

[DonaldMReif]

Based on what I've read on the Avanti Express lift, it sounds like they didn't dig any new tower foundations at all and the only new tower tube might be tower 1.

[NHskier13]

Speaking of lattice towers, it seems to me like the lattice towers are ladders in themselves. So if you had to do something at or near the lifting frame, could you just climb up the frame or do they put an actual ladder there?
(if anyone knows)

This post has been edited by NHskier13: 08 August 2015 - 10:43 AM

[Allan]

NHskier13, on 08 August 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Speaking of lattice towers, it seems to me like the lattice towers are ladders in themselves. So if you had to do something at or near the lifting frame, could you just climb up the frame or do they put an actual ladder there?
(if anyone knows)

You can climb them, but they aren't as friendly as climbing a ladder. I wish our Mueller lift with lattice towers had ladders.

[Liftkid99]

The old habegger lattice towers at grouse have small "pegs" to climb up with. I'm guessing it would be rather hard to climb up lattice towers in ski boots- though I've never gotten the chance to try

This post has been edited by Liftkid99: 08 August 2015 - 08:46 PM

[DonaldMReif]

I imagine that the people who climb the lift towers to do maintenance wear boots that are more conducive to climbing ladders.

[Allan]

I've given up trying to climb the lattice towers in plastic bottomed ski boots. I ride the chair in my work boots and hop off from the chair to the tower. Or if the lift is inoperable skidoo or snowcat in close enough to walk in.

[RibStaThiok]

Allan, on 08 August 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

You can climb them, but they aren't as friendly as climbing a ladder. I wish our Mueller lift with lattice towers had ladders.

Never too late to weld a few ladders on!

[snoloco]

Here's an interesting case of musical lift parts.

In 2006, The Canyons replaced the Tombstone HSQ (1997 Poma) with a Doppelmayr 6-pack. They reused the tower tubes and bolted the new Doppelmayr crossarms to them.

The remaining parts of the HSQ went to Steamboat and were bolted onto the original Doppelmayr triple towers.

The Doppelmayr chairs were placed on the South Peak and Christie 3 lifts to replace the Yan chairs on those lifts.

I'm guessing the Yan chairs were auctioned and the crossarms, drive, and return from the Sunshine Triple went to scrap.

[floridaskier]

The best musical chair: the Day Break Yan/CTEC triple at The Canyons / PCMR. It began life in 1981 with a counterweight bottom terminal as the original Wasatch at Deer Valley, which had Yan tower tubes with no lifting frames. It was taken out for an HSQ in 1996 and reinstalled in 1997 as the Quincy lift at DV, using the original Wasatch towers, crossarms, and sheaves, with CTEC lifting frames bolted onto the Yan crossarms, CTEC-style concrete tower bases, and a reconfigured hydro-tensioned bottom terminal. When Quincy was replaced with an HSQ in 2001, they left the old Wasatch tower tubes with new CTEC towerheads. The Canyons bought it and installed it as Day Break, with new tower tubes and the original crossarms with CTEC lifting frames. They took the extra chairs and installed them on the Lookout chair for a few years, and then replaced those with new CTEC chairs after a few years. The Yan chairs from Lookout now live on as part of a nighttime sleigh ride tour - a bunch of them are arranged on a pair of sleighs that are parked outside Red Pine Lodge, with their safety bars still on.

Another good one is the new King Con and Motherlode at PCMR. King Con has all original tower tubes (except number 1), and all new Doppelmayr towerheads with extensions like Avanti at Vail, painted gray. 15 towers on King Con. The new Motherlode, witht 16 towers, uses every towerhead and what looks like every sheave train configuration from King Con, with 16 towers instead of King Con's 15. The 16th tower has a new Doppeltec black plastic tower number, and the rest have the original tower numbers, probably with some rearranging to account for the different profiles. Motherlode has shiny new Doppelmayr galvanized tower tubes, most of which lean downhill (vs. the vertical towers King Con has). The CTEC catwalks aren't horizontal on top of the new towers (usually CTEC built vertical towers, and when they had an angled one, the front catwalk would be flat to compensate).

Question on cost savings - Motherlode needs 12 hold-down sheaves at the bottom terminal, and the original King Con towerhead had 8-rockers. Here, they built two depression towers at the bottom terminal - one that reuses the tower tube and original towerhead from King Con with 8-rockers, and a new Doppelmayr tower with 4 on each side. How is that cheaper or easier than one all-new 12-rocker Doppelmayr tower? They already bought a new tube and towerhead, and it would have saved them extra concrete.

For the record, it sounds like the old Motherlode Yan towers were scrapped. Some of the chairs were auctioned off to the public.

Last one: the First Time high speed quad (2004 Doppeltec) at PCMR uses the full towers and CTEC towerheads from the old First Time triple (mid-90s CTEC), which was reinstalled (with all new Doppeltec towers) as the Silver Star lift. They rearranged some of the sheaves on the new HSQ, and the CTEC catwalks don't match up with how many sheaves on each tower anymore. Silver Star uses the CTEC terminals and chairs with the Doppelmayr catwalks, which are mounted below the crossarms. Silver Star is really steep out of the bottom terminal, and for a few years you could easily reach out and touch the catwalk (I tried) on tower 2 sitting on the chair as you went by - it was only a few inches away from the top of the chair with the short CTEC fixed grip hanger arms. They removed that catwalk a few years ago.

Last tidbit: Silver Lake at Deer Valley has two sets of numbers on each tower that was reused from the Yan triple, which had the numbers attached directly below the top of the tower tube where the crossarm attached.