1. This is a 1988 Poma High Speed Quad (link below) what is the model of the terminal?
(http://www.skilifts....ille/wp/wp.html)
2. Is there a particular reason why lifts with a candence chain get replaced with tire contours?
3. What triggers the doors to open on a gondola? Are the doors powered by a battery or activated differently?
4. Why does Poma have the Falcon (Engine in station) as opposed to the Alpha Falcon, which has an Alpha drive terminal on the outside of the station?
5. Is it true that lifts with an upper drive station are more energy efficient?
6. What triggers a bubble chair or automatic safety bar carrier to raise the bar? Is the bar powered by a battery?
7. What dictates the amount of sheaves on a tower?
8. Is there a difference between counterweight tensioning and hydraulic tensioning in terms of performance?
9. Does having a straight vertical tower like CTEC differ much from the angled towers by Riblet?
10. How steep can your average detachable grip go before it slips? (Angle?)
Just 10 curious questions about lifts. If you have an answer, please number it so I know. I may come up with more when I think about it.
2
I had a few questions about lifts that maybe someone could answer?
Started by NHskier13, Oct 12 2014 02:44 PM
5 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 12 October 2014 - 03:54 PM
3 and 6: The bubbles and bars are not powered by a battery. They open and close mechanically in the terminals. Similar setup is the same for gondolas. Reference these two youtube videos:
http://youtu.be/bM6QUAPkdbo
http://youtu.be/x0e6hVBdUsk
10: I am not aware that a detachable carriers angle will have an effect for a grip to slip on the haul rope. Side note: An interesting video to watch of a quad bubble detach in high winds http://youtu.be/6-5ks3JLl-g
http://youtu.be/bM6QUAPkdbo
http://youtu.be/x0e6hVBdUsk
10: I am not aware that a detachable carriers angle will have an effect for a grip to slip on the haul rope. Side note: An interesting video to watch of a quad bubble detach in high winds http://youtu.be/6-5ks3JLl-g
#3
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Posted 12 October 2014 - 05:57 PM
2. Tire systems are quieter and fit into a smaller terminal. They also will automatically space chairs which make work easier. If a chair not spaced properly on a chain system, they have stop the lift to advance the chair. With a tire system, the chair will be spaced properly in a few lift rotations.
4. Falcon Terminals with the drive in the station are all vault drives to my knowledge. All Falcon gondolas are vault drives. With the Falcon Terminal, the mountain had the option of using an Alpha drive outside the Falcon detach terminal, or a vault drive.
5. Top drive lifts are more efficient because the drive pulls up directly on the loaded side of the line. With a bottom drive lift, some energy is wasted pulling all the slack out of the downgoing side of the line before it can move the upgoing side. Bottom tensioning is more efficient because it pulls out the slack with gravity working for it. A top tension has to hold up the full weight of the line.
7. The load that the tower has on it and the angle change determines the number of sheaves. Each sheave has a maximum load, and if that is exceeded, they will have to add more sheaves to the tower. More sheaves are needed with bigger angle changes because it is hard for a 4 sheave assembly to flex enough for a large change that an 8 sheave assembly would be able to flex for.
8. Counterweight tensioning always places a fixed amount of tension on the line. If the load is heavier, the counterweight will move up and let some slack in the line. The opposite happens when the line is empty. Hydraulic tensioning is a fully active system and the hydraulic rams supply enough force to keep the proper tension on the line. Hydraulic tensioning is more compact and is easier to detension for maintenance. I don't even know how a counterweight tensioned lift is detensioned. With one that is hydraulically tensioned, all that needs to be done is release the tension.
9. I learned this from elsewhere on this site. Riblet originally only used 8 sheaves per tower (4 per side). This was done to keep the weight down so the towers could be angled. They depended on the load from the line to offset the weight of the tower and always placed towers at the angle of the land they were on. CTEC, Hall, and Yan always placed their towers straight up and down and depended on the weight of the tower to offset the load and would almost always put more sheaves on the towerheads as well as use bulkier heavier designs. Doppelmayr and Poma are sort of in the middle and place towers straight up and down on low angle terrain and at a small angle on steep terrain.
4. Falcon Terminals with the drive in the station are all vault drives to my knowledge. All Falcon gondolas are vault drives. With the Falcon Terminal, the mountain had the option of using an Alpha drive outside the Falcon detach terminal, or a vault drive.
5. Top drive lifts are more efficient because the drive pulls up directly on the loaded side of the line. With a bottom drive lift, some energy is wasted pulling all the slack out of the downgoing side of the line before it can move the upgoing side. Bottom tensioning is more efficient because it pulls out the slack with gravity working for it. A top tension has to hold up the full weight of the line.
7. The load that the tower has on it and the angle change determines the number of sheaves. Each sheave has a maximum load, and if that is exceeded, they will have to add more sheaves to the tower. More sheaves are needed with bigger angle changes because it is hard for a 4 sheave assembly to flex enough for a large change that an 8 sheave assembly would be able to flex for.
8. Counterweight tensioning always places a fixed amount of tension on the line. If the load is heavier, the counterweight will move up and let some slack in the line. The opposite happens when the line is empty. Hydraulic tensioning is a fully active system and the hydraulic rams supply enough force to keep the proper tension on the line. Hydraulic tensioning is more compact and is easier to detension for maintenance. I don't even know how a counterweight tensioned lift is detensioned. With one that is hydraulically tensioned, all that needs to be done is release the tension.
9. I learned this from elsewhere on this site. Riblet originally only used 8 sheaves per tower (4 per side). This was done to keep the weight down so the towers could be angled. They depended on the load from the line to offset the weight of the tower and always placed towers at the angle of the land they were on. CTEC, Hall, and Yan always placed their towers straight up and down and depended on the weight of the tower to offset the load and would almost always put more sheaves on the towerheads as well as use bulkier heavier designs. Doppelmayr and Poma are sort of in the middle and place towers straight up and down on low angle terrain and at a small angle on steep terrain.
#4
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Posted 13 October 2014 - 01:48 PM
SkiLiftsRock, on 12 October 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:
3 and 6: The bubbles and bars are not powered by a battery. They open and close mechanically in the terminals. Similar setup is the same for gondolas. Reference these two youtube videos:
http://youtu.be/bM6QUAPkdbo
http://youtu.be/x0e6hVBdUsk
10: I am not aware that a detachable carriers angle will have an effect for a grip to slip on the haul rope. Side note: An interesting video to watch of a quad bubble detach in high winds http://youtu.be/6-5ks3JLl-g
http://youtu.be/bM6QUAPkdbo
http://youtu.be/x0e6hVBdUsk
10: I am not aware that a detachable carriers angle will have an effect for a grip to slip on the haul rope. Side note: An interesting video to watch of a quad bubble detach in high winds http://youtu.be/6-5ks3JLl-g
Just to clarify, the grip did not detach from the rope. The chair just violently swung around.
Anything is possible when you don't understand what you are talking about.
#5
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Posted 13 October 2014 - 03:00 PM
2milehi, on 13 October 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:
Just to clarify, the grip did not detach from the rope. The chair just violently swung around.
Thank you for the clarifying 2milehi. By "detach" I was referring to lift type not grip action.
#6
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Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:22 PM
1: No idea.
2: Because chains are a royal pain in the @$$ to maintain. I speak from experience. We replaced the chains on the Flyer with tires years ago and I'm pretty happy with it. They also have a one-time cost where chains must be replaced every so often (to the tune of many thousands of dollars). And yes, they're quieter. The only advantage to chains is the ease of spacing; I do need to correct snoloco in that we don't stop lifts with chains in order to advance carriers. One lap and it's done.
3: A cable connected to a lever arm. You can see the actuating ramp here: http://www.skilifts....d=106629&st=0.
4: More properly called the Alpha Evolution, that style of terminal was intended for areas who couldn't afford a detach right now but could upgrade later. One would build an Alpha-drive fixed grip, then several years later drop the detach terminals in front of the Alpha building. I know of only a couple of areas in the States who actually did this. The vault-drive lifts were almost all gondolas as the Alpha terminal wasn't big enough to hold the more powerful equipment needed for that application. I know of three exceptions; mine, the late Colorado SuperChair, and another in France which were all quads. Finally, the Falcon is (like Kleenex versus facial tissue) merely the first one everyone here seems to think of. The terminal style has been referred to as 'Performance'.
5: Yes, as referred to above.
6: The same cable that opens gondola cabin doors.
7: The engineer who designs the lift, based on what the sheaves are rated to carry.
8: No, merely more efficient use of space. Again I need to correct snoloco; a counterweight does indeed place a fixed amount of tension on the line but so does a hydraulic piston. The design engineer specifies the amount of tension the lift needs, and if you adjust that it changes all sorts of things. it's quicker to detension the lift, yes. I can describe detensioning a counterweighted lift but I'm already writing a lengthy reply :)
9:Answered succinctly above.
10: As far as the physical clearance between the grip and the hanger arm will allow. Yan type 7 and 11 grips had a limit due to their construction but they're no longer in service.
2: Because chains are a royal pain in the @$$ to maintain. I speak from experience. We replaced the chains on the Flyer with tires years ago and I'm pretty happy with it. They also have a one-time cost where chains must be replaced every so often (to the tune of many thousands of dollars). And yes, they're quieter. The only advantage to chains is the ease of spacing; I do need to correct snoloco in that we don't stop lifts with chains in order to advance carriers. One lap and it's done.
3: A cable connected to a lever arm. You can see the actuating ramp here: http://www.skilifts....d=106629&st=0.
4: More properly called the Alpha Evolution, that style of terminal was intended for areas who couldn't afford a detach right now but could upgrade later. One would build an Alpha-drive fixed grip, then several years later drop the detach terminals in front of the Alpha building. I know of only a couple of areas in the States who actually did this. The vault-drive lifts were almost all gondolas as the Alpha terminal wasn't big enough to hold the more powerful equipment needed for that application. I know of three exceptions; mine, the late Colorado SuperChair, and another in France which were all quads. Finally, the Falcon is (like Kleenex versus facial tissue) merely the first one everyone here seems to think of. The terminal style has been referred to as 'Performance'.
5: Yes, as referred to above.
6: The same cable that opens gondola cabin doors.
7: The engineer who designs the lift, based on what the sheaves are rated to carry.
8: No, merely more efficient use of space. Again I need to correct snoloco; a counterweight does indeed place a fixed amount of tension on the line but so does a hydraulic piston. The design engineer specifies the amount of tension the lift needs, and if you adjust that it changes all sorts of things. it's quicker to detension the lift, yes. I can describe detensioning a counterweighted lift but I'm already writing a lengthy reply :)
9:Answered succinctly above.
10: As far as the physical clearance between the grip and the hanger arm will allow. Yan type 7 and 11 grips had a limit due to their construction but they're no longer in service.
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