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doppelmayr vs poma


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#21 Peter

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 01:50 PM

D-CTEC lifts have parts from both, however St. Jerome makes the detachable terminals. Salt Lake City makes chairs, line equipment, and fixed grip terminals.
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#22 SkiLift101

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 02:03 PM

i dont really know all the technical stuff, but i prefer the look of the dopps over the pomas.
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#23 bushmogulmaster

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 03:15 PM

View PostSkiLift101, on Apr 27 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

i dont really know all the technical stuff, but i prefer the look of the dopps over the pomas.



Ah, but wait til you see the new POMA terminals and LPA grips!

#24 SkiLift101

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 11:14 AM

View Postbushmogulmaster, on Apr 27 2008, 06:15 PM, said:

Ah, but wait til you see the new POMA terminals and LPA grips!

do you have any pics?
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#25 bushmogulmaster

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 12:43 PM

View PostSkiLift101, on Apr 28 2008, 12:14 PM, said:

do you have any pics?


Yeah. Let me dig back through the "archives" of pictures, and I'll try to post a pic or two for you.

Little "teaser" pic of the mechanism/terminal design:

Posted Image


New LPA grip (there are two grips on the rail, one in the foreground, and a smaller version in the background):

Posted Image

#26 Guest_mjturley34_*

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 01:46 PM

Nice pics do you have anymore close ups of that guy's back ? Maybe his shoe against the term skin ? Any better angles of the grip ? Don't mean to be picky but if the new stuff is better it would nice see why/how

#27 bushmogulmaster

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 01:56 PM

View Postmjturley34, on Apr 28 2008, 02:46 PM, said:

Nice pics do you have anymore close ups of that guy's back ? Maybe his shoe against the term skin ? Any better angles of the grip ? Don't mean to be picky but if the new stuff is better it would nice see why/how


I'll see what I can put together. I might have a few different angles of the grip. That "guy" is Tom Clink, our tour guide. He's the sales manager, but spent years running the lift department at Breck. Knows his stuff about lifts.

I don't really think that the new LPA grip is "better," per se. It's just different. I guess the Italians (I believe Leitner wanted this new design, IIRC) don't like ball joints, so they didn't like the eccentric spring packs of the Omega grip. L-POA wants to use the Omega grip as long as possible. Not sure how soon we'll see the new grip on US installations.

This is really all I have:

Whole "demo" unit:

Posted Image



LPA grip jaw:

Posted Image


LPA grip from the other side (good look at the traction plate):

Posted Image

This post has been edited by skiersage: 29 April 2008 - 08:02 AM


#28 Peter

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 04:07 PM

Do you have any idea when that new terminal design will be seen in new installations?
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#29 SkiLift101

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 05:01 PM

thanks for the pics! did you take those?
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#30 bushmogulmaster

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 07:22 PM

View PostSkier, on Apr 28 2008, 05:07 PM, said:

Do you have any idea when that new terminal design will be seen in new installations?


The impression I got was that it will be soon. But I don't really know how soon. The ones they were constructing the two times I was at the factory were Omegas. Maybe next summer's installs?

View PostSkiLift101, on Apr 28 2008, 06:01 PM, said:

thanks for the pics! did you take those?


Yep. Fun place to visit.

#31 Snoqualmie guy

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:20 PM

For the Dopp-CTEC lifts, what decides if it has CTEC style chairs or Dopp.?
- Jeff


Why couldn't they of come up with "Global Cooling"?

#32 Peter

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:21 PM

I think the customer still has a choice between the Doppelmayr EJ chairs and Garaventa "Vail" chairs. I think they have finally stopped using the old CTEC chairs and the plan at some point was to stop offering the EJ chairs.
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#33 Guest_mjturley34_*

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 02:38 PM

:censored2:

#34 Bill

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 02:49 PM

View Postmjturley34, on May 3 2008, 03:38 PM, said:

:censored2:


Hey Mike,

Repost the post that got deleted. :wink:
- Bill


#35 DonaldMReif

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 02:32 PM

One thing different between the two types of lifts is the towers. Poma towers are always square shaped, but Dopplemayr towers can be either square shaped with extended arms over the ends at the top, or triangular shaped into the tower. Vail uses both of those examples (box for Avanti Express, Born Free Express, and Orient Express and triangles on the Northwoods Express, Mountaintop Express, Vista Bahn Express, and Game Creek Express), as does Beaver Creek (triangular on Centennial Express, box on Arrow Bahn Express). In addition, Poma grips tend to be almost in the same position in the terminal as they are on the line, while Dopplemayr grips tend to have the rollers in a lower position in the terminal.
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#36 2milehi

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 03:22 PM

Electronics

Doppelmayr uses a Pilz PLC to monitor everything. With clocked outputs feeding various sensors and monitored outputs, it can be VERY difficult to jump out a fault. Grip force is monitored by a deflection prox that is susceptible to static discharge between the haul rope and the grip.

Poma uses an Allen Bradley PLC to monitor everything. Every normal stop can be jumped out via a touch screen and a "Safeties Bypass" switch. Some E-Stops can be jumped out with a switch, touch screen, and "Safeties Bypass". Grip force is measured by a mechanical switch (Go, No Go).

As long as protocalls are followed, it is TONS easier to jump out faults on a Poma and clear the line if need be.

This post has been edited by 2milehi: 07 March 2009 - 03:28 PM

Anything is possible when you don't understand what you are talking about.

#37 Kicking Horse

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 06:43 PM

View Post2milehi, on Mar 7 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

Electronics

Doppelmayr uses a Pilz PLC to monitor everything. With clocked outputs feeding various sensors and monitored outputs, it can be VERY difficult to jump out a fault. Grip force is monitored by a deflection prox that is susceptible to static discharge between the haul rope and the grip.

Poma uses an Allen Bradley PLC to monitor everything. Every normal stop can be jumped out via a touch screen and a "Safeties Bypass" switch. Some E-Stops can be jumped out with a switch, touch screen, and "Safeties Bypass". Grip force is measured by a mechanical switch (Go, No Go).

As long as protocalls are followed, it is TONS easier to jump out faults on a Poma and clear the line if need be.


Poma Safety Bypasses can be a pain IN THE ASS to set a bypass.... ;). Since I have been a Drive Operator on both Poma and Doppelmaryr I'm going to say that I like the Poma's better. @ least the new ones. Have not ran an old Poma yet. But that time is coming in the next few weeks.
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#38 skierdude9450

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 07:45 PM

Were all of the pictures of the LPA/Multix system taken in France? I know that it has been used in Europe for four years now, but any word on if we'll ever see it in America?
-Matt

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#39 2milehi

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 07:58 PM

View PostKicking Horse, on Mar 7 2009, 07:43 PM, said:

Poma Safety Bypasses can be a pain IN THE ASS to set a bypass.... ;). Since I have been a Drive Operator on both Poma and Doppelmaryr I'm going to say that I like the Poma's better. @ least the new ones. Have not ran an old Poma yet. But that time is coming in the next few weeks.


OK Kicking Horse - how is bypassing a Poma Safety Bypasses a pain in the A$$?
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#40 DonaldMReif

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 10:39 AM

View Postbushmogulmaster, on Apr 28 2008, 03:56 PM, said:

I'll see what I can put together. I might have a few different angles of the grip. That "guy" is Tom Clink, our tour guide. He's the sales manager, but spent years running the lift department at Breck. Knows his stuff about lifts.

I don't really think that the new LPA grip is "better," per se. It's just different. I guess the Italians (I believe Leitner wanted this new design, IIRC) don't like ball joints, so they didn't like the eccentric spring packs of the Omega grip. L-POA wants to use the Omega grip as long as possible. Not sure how soon we'll see the new grip on US installations.

This is really all I have:

Whole "demo" unit:

Posted Image



LPA grip jaw:

Posted Image


LPA grip from the other side (good look at the traction plate):

Posted Image



Weren't these grips supposed to come into the U.S.A in 2007? The thread in the images forum for the Highline Express and Sourdough Express lifts at Vail says those two lifts were supposed to use this grip but for some reason got the classic T-Grip they've been cranking for ten years.
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