31 replies to this topic

[CH3skier]

SALT LAKE COUNTY — Developers are planning to build a tram over the crest of the Wasatch Mountains — the first ski facility ever to cross the divide between the Wasatch Front and the Wasatch Back.
The companies involved expect to announce the plan at a news conference in the next two weeks. But KSL News has learned exclusive details about the planned lift, which is already causing controversy.

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The proposed tram would connect The Canyons Ski Resort to Solitude Mountain Resort
Two resorts are working together on the project. They may scale it back to a chairlift, but the expected plan is a tram. The main argument in favor is that it would give skiers a new way to get into Big Cottonwood Canyon without driving up the highway.
The main player is the company that owns The Canyons Ski Resort near Park City. Somewhere up near the top of their lifts, they want to build a tram that would climb out of Summit County, cross the Wasatch Divide, and plunge down into Big Cottonwood Canyon.
The destination for skiers coming from Summit County? Solitude Mountain Resort, which is partnering with The Canyons resort. The two resorts would have a reciprocal ski pass agreement.
Representatives from The Canyons and Solitude argue there's a big public benefit: reduced congestion by giving skiers a new way to reach Solitude.
"We have 5,000 to 8,000 cars going to Big Cottonwood Canyon on the big weekends," said Ted Wilson, spokesman for the Canyons, "and we believe that we could save up to a million miles of car traffic on the Big Cottonwood side."

Proponents have been meeting quietly with groups representing skiers, environmentalists and the U.S. Forest Service.
But the group called Save Our Canyons is opposing the pan, arguing it will inevitably open up more terrain adjacent to Solitude for downhill skiers.
"The Wasatch is becoming a very, very crowded place, and there's a bunch of different uses that take place in this area," said Carl Fisher, executive director of Save Our Canyons.

[Skiing#1]

I looked up the map and a proposal lift is next to Day Break Lift at Canyons, which bottom of Day Break next to a proposal lift... go up to top then go down (bottom) then go up to Solidue (or across Big Cottonwood road to Solidute).

I am concerning two things: 1) ruin beautiful forest and wild animals 2) When the power failures, the proposal tram would be down, how can Summit county people or vacation people (stay at hotel or motel at Park City area) go back to Summit County?

If it is successful then next step...new proposal lifts between Brighton and Park City or Brighton/Solidue to Alta and Snowbird? What do you think? It would not worth it.

[Kicking Horse]

So let me get this right. People complain about how much traffic are on the highways so ski areas plan to make a improvement to reduce traffic on the motorways and yet no one is happy about it?


Basically they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Lift Dinosaur]

CH3skier, on 27 September 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

Representatives from The Canyons and Solitude argue there's a big public benefit: reduced congestion by giving skiers a new way to reach Solitude.
"We have 5,000 to 8,000 cars going to Big Cottonwood Canyon on the big weekends," said Ted Wilson, spokesman for the Canyons, "and we believe that we could save up to a million miles of car traffic on the Big Cottonwood side."

So playing the Devil's advocate, aren't these 5000 to 8000 cars and up to a million miles of car traffic just going to be transferred to a parking lot at Canyons? Are they inferring that getting to Canyons is lest congestive that BCC?
Dino

[Peter]

Lift Dinosaur, on 28 September 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

So playing the Devil's advocate, aren't these 5000 to 8000 cars and up to a million miles of car traffic just going to be transferred to a parking lot at Canyons? Are they inferring that getting to Canyons is lest congestive that BCC?
Dino

I think they're referring to the people who stay in the Park City area and drive to BCC for a day or two to ski over there. But those seem like awfully big numbers for that.

No doubt a Wasatch interconnect would be cool. But I'm not sure a tram from halfway up Canyons makes a whole lot of sense.

[Kicking Horse]

Maybe build some sort of 2s or 3s from the main base of canyons over to the base of Solitude... Or better yet a FGD... There you go.

[CH3skier]

I would think something from base to base would work better for moving people. I guess this leaked out in the media a couple weeks early, so more information is forth coming.

[floridaskier]

I doubt this would ever get off the ground. How many people would be using it? I'd bet a lot of vacationers in the Park City resorts don't even know the Cottonwoods exist. It would be a lot more exciting to have Canyons-Park City interconnect lift, which could be done as a chairlift pretty easily. While it would be a fun thing to have, I doubt it would take too many cars off the roads. It'd be interesting to know what percentage of Big Cottonwood visitors are coming from Park City. Base to base is a long way. Day Break is very far from the base area of The Canyons, and not very exciting when you get there. I can think of better ways for Talisker to spend $50 million at The Canyons and turn it into the destination it could be.

With the roads completed for winter housing access all the way through Deer Valley now, it wouldn't take too much road construction to open up the Guardsman Pass road to Big Cottonwood Canyon in the winter. That would have the added benefit of allowing people to get over there without buying Canyons passes. The tram sounds like a pipe dream, just like the Town Lift gondola at Park City on steroids

[Skiing#1]

Ski resorts propose interconnect --officials worry about developments


http://www.ksl.com/i...ut-developments



SALT LAKE CITY — Multiple ski resort proposals that could ultimately more than double the amount of access to ski acreage in Big and Little Cottonwood canyons has Salt Lake City raising the alarm on how the developments could impact its watershed, which supplies drinking water to nearly a half-million residents.

Jeff Niermeyer, director of public utilities, said adding a lift here, adding a lift there, putting in a new tram at one resort or establishing glide path to connect two resorts are among proposals under discussion. Some have been formally presented for review to government agencies — such as the U.S. Forest Service or Salt Lake County Planning — while others are in the talking stage.

Are we really willing to compromise our watershed for wow? I have a difficult time, but I am the water guy.–- Jeff Niermeyer

Some projects include the development of a 200-home community at Cardiff Fork in the Big Cottonwood Canyon watershed or putting an aerial tram or lift that would connect Canyons Resort in Park City to Solitude.

"Our concern is that we have all these people right now trying to push all these individual projects and nobody is really looking at this in a holistic manner," Niermeyer said.

As the city's ultimate watchdog and caretaker of a Wasatch watershed that supplies the drinking water needs for nearly 500,000 people, Niermeyer admits he is ultra- sensitive to proposals that could threaten that supply.

Still, he said, with so many possible ski resort projects, expansions or improvements floating about, he had to sit down and put the details on a map so he could the grasp the scope of what reality might look like someday.

"Once I saw this on a map, quite honestly, it scared me. The proposed cumulative impact of all of these lift expansions could have a huge impact on the culinary water supply for Salt Lake City and Salt Lake County."

•At a glance, projects Niermeyer says have been floated about or formally proposed are:

•Solitude's glide path from Canyons Resort to Solitude

•Park City Mountain Resort, two lifts in Guardsman Pass area on the Big Cottonwood Canyon side; glide path to
connect to Brighton

•Solitude's expansion into the Sliver Fork area proposed to U.S. Forest Service, but rejected. Niermeyer says it
could resurface if other projects gain traction.

•Solitude adding a lift from Honeycomb Canyon to the top of Grizzly Gulch area

•Alta adding another lift in the Grizzly Gulch area to extend terrain north toward Big Cottonwood Canyon and
Solitude.

•Snowbird wants a new tram to connect to the Hidden Peak Tram to the top of American Fork's Twin Peaks,
providing access into Mary Ellen Gulch in Utah County and a portion of White Pine Canyon in Salt Lake County.

•Private land owners are proposing a 200-home development and a lift in Cardiff Fork, a sub drainage of Big
Cottonwood Canyon.

•Alta's proposed addition of another lift in Little Cottonwood Canyon at Flagstaff that would access Days Fork in Big
Cottonwood Canyon and to the north.

•Canyons Resort proposing a tram or lift to connect its resort to Solitude

Niermeyer says the ski lift additions put forth by resorts such as Alta or Solitude may appear innocuous enough on individual basis.

"People may ask, 'What is wrong with skiing on the snow, does that wear the water out?' But all expansions come with development proposals."

Niermeyer said ski resorts are going after the "wow factor" to compete with Colorado — envisioning some super-connected system in which skiers can access six or seven resorts in three separate canyons.

"Are we really willing to compromise our watershed for wow? I have a difficult time, but I am the water guy."

Salt Lake City has been in talks with the county and with the U.S. Forest Service to express its concerns, keenly aware that its input represents only one voice in multi-jurisdictional issue.

We are looking at taking a holistic approach to this. ... We want to have a very rich discussion about it –- Patrick Leary, SL County Public Works

"We don't hold all the cards," said Laura Briefer, the city's special project manager. "Any one of these sets precedence for others waiting in the queue."

Save Our Canyons' Carl Fischer said the number of ski resort project proposals is mind boggling.

"It's absolutely unprecedented," he said. "I've never seen anything like it."

Fischer, like Niermeyer, said he believes the creep in the proposals is part of a grander vision to expand the Wasatch Canyons skiing experience.

"I find everything that is out on the table very troubling because it is going to lead to significant change to the way everyone is going to use these canyons," Fischer said. "From what I can tell it is all going to be one enormous ski resort."

Fischer and Salt Lake City, too, worries that possible revisions to a Salt Lake County ordinance related to ski resorts could open the door to developments that have been discussed. The city has fired off a three-page letter to the county's planning director, outlining concerns about proposals to fine-tune that ordinance.

Salt Lake County Public Works Director Patrick Leary said the regulations were written 14 years ago and are in need of revision.

"The issues have changed substantially over the years," Leary said. "We are looking at taking a holistic approach to this. ... We want to have a very rich discussion about it."

Ski Utah President and Chief Executive Officer Nathan Rafferty said any of the proposals out there are designed to make sure the ski resorts can meet the needs of the future.

"They are less about making the ski resorts bigger and more about getting people from one resort to another," Rafferty said, pointing to congestion and other traffic problems that already pose headaches for skiers and snowboarders.

"As we have all seen, the experience of getting to a ski area has rapidly deteriorated."

Such options that help "connect" resorts to each other could possibly solve some of those problems, Rafferty said.

"I think the time is here for some thoughtful discussions on the impacts to the Wasatch," Rafferty said. "Nobody wins if we shut things down up there or we degrade the water quality."

Gov. Gary Herbert, too, said some sort of ski resort connectivity might actually have environmental benefits — such as improvements to air quality — but such development would have to have proceed with caution and appropriate mitigation.

"Whatever we do has to be in harmony with the stewardship responsibilities we have in protecting our watersheds, our flora and our fauna," he said. "We might be able to tip-toe through the watershed with an aerial tram."

Niermeyer remains unconvinced that a lift or tram that is capable of putting 1,000 skiers on the slopes in an hour is going to do anything to alleviate congestion, or be protective.

"Those skiers need restrooms, base facilities and it all starts to expand."

This post has been edited by Skiing#1: 23 October 2011 - 11:08 AM

[jaxxex]

another thing that is in the works is the common ticket using axis gates...

[Skiing#1]

http://www.skilink.com/

SkiLink is an 8 passenger gondola connecting Cayons Resort and Solitude Mountain Resort. It creates the most unique interconnected ski network in the United States by providing skiing and snowboarding access to diverse and previously geographically disparate resorts by connecting more than 6,000 combined acres of existing, skiable terrain with a gondola.

It is an all-new, exciting transportation initiative designed to ease access and decrease traffic in both Big Cottonwood and Parley's Canyons, while significantly reducing overall miles driven in the area. By connecting the Canyons Resort in Summit County to Solitude Resort in Big Cottonwood Canyon, we can create a simple, innovative and low-impact solution that will serve the dual purpose of improving recreation access while simultaneously easing traffic conditions.

The beauty of the SkiLink solution is that it's simply an 8 passenger gondola. Yet this gondola is projected to reduce ski season traffic through Big Cottonwood Canyon by as much as 18,000 cars per year, and as much as 10% on peak days.

Initially, an estimated 1 million fewer miles will be driven per year by eliminating the need for those in the Summit County area to drive to and through Parley's Canyon, down to Salt Lake, along the Wasatch Front and finally 15 miles up Big Cottonwood Canyon. This will reduce the emission of greenhouse gasses by around 1 million pounds per year. SkiLink would use only 30.3 acres of land to connect the Canyons and Solitude. It would be positioned outside proposed wilderness boundaries.



SkiLink is a gondola that connects Canyons Resort and Solitude Mountain Resort, easing access by connecting Summit County to Big Cottonwood Canyon in a simple and direct manner.

The elegant, quiet and non-invasive transportation option will decrease canyon traffic while increasing access and enjoyment to both resorts in an environmentally sensitive way for skiers and snowboarders all along the Wasatch Front and Back.

The use of helicopters for concrete placement and tower installations creates a minimally invasive construction technique. Watershed protection will be provided though the very latest, proven design and construction mitigation methods. Intelligent phasing and logistics to minimize use of ground-based equipment will be utilized and management and operating procedures will tread lightly on the natural landscape.

This post has been edited by Skiing#1: 17 November 2011 - 08:41 AM

[Skiing#1]

http://www.ksl.com/i...ng-gondola-plan


PARK CITY — A proposal for a gondola that would link Canyons ski resort to Solitude has come off the drafting board, officially unveiled Thursday by resort officials.
Introduced as SkiLink, the gondola system would unite 6,000 acres of terrain to support the snow sport industry and be a one-of-a-kind recreation network for the United States, resort officials say.

“SkiLink creates a game-changing advantage for Utah and for the U.S. snow sport industry,” said Mike Goar, managing director of Canyons, a Talisker Mountain Inc. resort. “It would establish Utah as the most interesting and convenient mountain destination in the U.S. and will positively benefit our local economies."

Goar said the eight-passenger SkiLink gondola will have the capacity to transport 1,000 people per hour each way and is projected to transport skiers between Canyons and Solitude Mountain Resort in just 11 minutes.

SkiLink presents tremendous lifestyle, economic and transportation benefits for Utah residents and our nation.–- Rep. Rob Bishop

“Connecting the resorts has been discussed for years, but Talisker Mountain Inc. had the vision to link the slopes of the Wasatch Back and Front in the simplest of ways,” Goar said.

This is short-sighted and being done to circumvent the existing planning processes.–- Jeff Niermeyer, SLC watershed protection

Such a transportation system would reduce traffic in the canyons, save time for snow enthusiasts and expand the recreational experience, he added.

“Every day during the ski season, out-of-town and local skiers roam between Canyons and the Big Cottonwood Canyon resorts to experience the diversity of terrain each has to offer. Studies have reported that SkiLink would decrease canyon traffic by providing an alternative to the 45-mile drive between the two canyons that can take 45 minutes to an hour depending on traffic. Plus, staying on the slopes during your ski day is a whole lot more fun than driving.”

The proposal has prompted concern by Salt Lake officials since they first heard of it and the reaction was no less tempered on Thursday.

"This is short-sighted and being done to circumvent the existing planning processes," said Jeff Niermeyer, Salt Lake City's point man for watershed protection.

This is short-sighted and being done to circumvent the existing planning processes.–- Jeff Niermeyer, SLC watershed protection

"The disposal of protected watershed into private ownership concerns us a lot," he said.

Niermeyer, the city's director of public utilities, said he believes Canyons' traffic analysis is flawed, adding that the gondola is masquerading as a transportation solution when it is "really about ski area expansion."

To facilitate SkiLink, House and Senate legislation was introduced in Congress Thursday that proposes to sell 30.3 acres of U.S. Forest Service land where the project would be constructed.

It was introduced by Reps. Rob Bishop and Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, and Sens. Orrin Hatch and Mike Lee.

The legislation would jump start environmental studies required under the federal regulations such as the National Environmental Policy Act. Canyons would also have to work with Salt Lake City on watershed issues and acquire necessary permits from Salt Lake and Summit counties.

“SkiLink presents tremendous lifestyle, economic and transportation benefits for Utah residents and our nation,” Bishop said. “I have great confidence in the preparation Canyons has completed to this point for the proposed connection. I am pleased to support their vision by introducing this legislation, which will facilitate the next steps of this public process.”

This post has been edited by Skiing#1: 17 November 2011 - 03:02 PM

[Skiing#1]

http://www.ksl.com/?...-becker-corroon

Ski-connect proposal meets opposition from Mayors Becker, Corroon

WASHINGTON — Salt Lake City Mayor Ralph Becker and Salt Lake County Mayor Peter Corroon have taken a stand against a plan that would include the sale of 30 acres of federal land to help connect The Canyons and Solitude ski resorts.

Becker testified Friday before the House Natural Resources subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands. The subcommittee is chaired by Rep. Rob Bishop, R-Utah, the sponsor of HR 3452, the measure that would authorize the land sale that would facilitate the proposed mile-long gondola. The bill is also supported by Sens. Orrin Hatch and Mike Lee, and co-sponsored by Rep. Jason Chaffetz, all R-Utah.

In a joint statement, Becker and Corroon said the plan to sell the land "violates our current policies, developed over decades of public processes, fails to acknowledge important resources and uses in the Wasatch Canyons, and would damage our prized environment and balance of public uses and users."

The resolution would make the federal land for sale at fair-market value to be utilized in the creation of a "SkiLink" gondola transportation system to connect the two resorts — The Canyons in Summit County and Solitude Mountain Resort in Salt Lake County.

"Economic analysis of SkiLink shows it would infuse another $50 million a year into Utah's economy and create 500 new jobs in the tourism and hospitality industries by creating the largest interconnected ski network in the United States and providing access to more than 6,000 acres of existing ski terrain," the bill says.

But the two mayors say the proposal has been insufficiently vetted. "Ignoring the importance of our sensitive watershed areas is unacceptable and sets a perilous precedent for the future of this resource for the entire Salt Lake Valley," Becker said.

Corroon said he "will not support measures which compromise our environment, watersheds or protected wilderness."

A statement from Lee is representative of the position others in the delegation have taken. "I will always support measures that will give the state of Utah more control over Utah's land. Tourism is an extremely important part of the state economy, and releasing this small section of land from federal control so that it may be sold and developed will improve Utah's tourism appeal while increasing transportation efficiency and creating jobs," Lee said.

The Forest Service also testified against the proposal on Friday, saying it would split a roadless area in two and leave a narrow corridor of private land in the middle of a national forest.

"While we appreciate the desire of the bill's proponents to reduce traffic between the two resorts, the department does not support (the legislation)," said acting deputy chief of staff Gregory Smith, who called it "inconsistent with efforts to consolidate ownership within forest boundaries."

Mike Goar, managing director for The Canyons, also testified before the subcommittee. "This is a tremendous first step in creating transportation alternatives," Goar said. "Gondolas are used all over the world for transportation. ...Every car taken off the road is a win for all of us."

The proposed inter-resort gondola is "the camel's nose under the tent" that could open the mountains to further ski area development, said Jeff Niermeyer, public utilities director for Salt Lake City, which was ceded control of the Wasatch canyons long ago by Congress for a water supply.

Niermeyer said five of the seven Wasatch ski areas that practically rub shoulders are working on plans to add chair lifts to the backcountry, some as links to neighboring resorts. He opposes all of the plans.

Contributing: The Associated Press

This post has been edited by Skiing#1: 04 December 2011 - 09:27 PM

[Skiing#1]

http://www.deseretne...nment.html?pg=1

SkiLink proposal divides users over access and environments

By Tyler Tate
For the Deseret News
Published: Monday, Feb. 20 2012 11:23 p.m. MST

Last season Utah attracted 20 million ski and snowboard visitors and another $1.2 billion in revenue to area businesses. Now one group says by linking Park City and Big Cottonwood canyon those figures could rise.

Talisker Corp.'s the Canyons resort wants to link its Park City runs with Solitude in Big Cottonwood Canyon via a gondola. The development would add 500 permanent operational jobs and generate $50 million of revenue annual at its outset. Not everyone is happy.

"This project is designed to make Utah more attractive to out-of-state skiers and to bring our local ski community together," said Mike Goar, managing director of the Canyons, in an interview. "The Canyons and Park City are two well-established resorts with challenges for skiers and snowboarders. This project now opens the door for more access."

SkiLink, as it is called, would reduce ski season traffic through Big Cottonwood Canyon by as much as 18,000 cars, or 10 percent of ski- and snowboard-related traffic each year, according to Talisker, citing an independent study it conducted. That translates into 1 million fewer miles driven and around 1 million fewer pounds of greenhouse gas emissions annually.

The eight-passenger SkiLink gondola will link an existing 6,000 acres of skiable terrain as it transporst skiers between the Canyons and Solitude in an 11-minute ride, Talisker reported. Entry and exit to the SkiLink Gondola will be mid mountain at the Canyons and the base of Solitude with no other stops along the route.

To access the gondola, visitors must purchase a special pass. No price has been set, said Goar. The total pass would not cost more than the combined value of each resort.

Goar said the design with not impact backcountry skiers. Others disagree.

The U.S. Forrest Service owns the land through which SkiLink would pass. In 2003, the Forrest Service said in a report that boundaries could not expand into undelveloped areas, as is the case with SkiLink.

To make the construction possible, Talisker along with Congressman Rob Bishop, who serves as chairman of the subcommittee on National Parks and Public Lands, Rep. Jason Chaffetz and Sen. Orrin G. Hatch and Sen. Mike Lee jointly introduced House and Senate legislation, asking for the sale of 30.3 acres of land at fair market value.

Carl Fisher, director of the nonprofit Save our Canyons, said the Forest Service rulling is one of many reasons to reject the project along with potential impact to the watershed. The SkiLink path crosses land classified as "function at risk" by the Forest Service.

"SkiLink is a blatent disregard of the directive set by the U.S. Forrest Service," Fisher said. "SkiLink does not make sense as a transportation solution. It is ski resort expansion through at-risk areas."

The SkiLink group disagrees, citing studies on the habitats, wildlife, watershed and visual landscape showing no significant impact. Construction crews would use helicopters to pour concrete and place the towers. The gondola route would mirror the terrain to fit in with the landscape, Goar said.

Water quality records provided by SkiLink and Utah's Department of Agriculture, have also shown that ski lifts developed in adjacent areas with similar slope, soil and vegetation had no adverse impact to water quality.

In the bill introduced by Rob Bishop, the directed sale would provide additional legislation for environmental studies that are required by the National Environmental Policy Act, the Endangered Species Act and all other applicable laws to gain approval for construction of the SkiLink project.

There are still many steps that need to be taken before the SkiLink project can be built. Following approval, the project will take about three to four years to complete, Goar said.

The representative of the project and opponent Save our Canyons have added their viewpoints, which are available online.

Read the pro position by Mike Goar, the managing director of the Canyons Resort.

Read the con position by Carl Fisher, the executive director of Save our Canyons.

Tyler Tate is the owner and writer of T Squared Action Sports. Follow him on Twitter @TSquaredSports or online at tsquaredsports.com.

This post has been edited by Skiing#1: 21 February 2012 - 08:48 AM

[Peter]

I hope this goes nowhere. Canyons/Talisker has given up on the Forest Service's public process and is now trying to get a special deal through Congress to sell them public land.

[CH3skier]

Skier, on 21 February 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

I hope this goes nowhere. Canyons/Talisker has given up on the Forest Service's public process and is now trying to get a special deal through Congress to sell them public land.

It is an election year, Congress will do anything for some votes. :)

[Lift Dinosaur]

CH3skier, on 21 February 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

It is an election year, Congress will do anything for some votes. :)

How many votes does Utah have...and do Canadian Votes from Talisker count???
Dino

[floridaskier]

http://www.parkrecor...k-support-grows

New article about this plan

[DonaldMReif]

Methinks this would make sense in theory, but would be impractical if implemented.

[Skiing#1]

http://www.stopskilink.com/

About save canyons and stop ski link building.

My friend's friend hiked at Solitude and noticed a warning sign. He said
Some theoretical signs that were posted on the famous Wasatch Crest Trail this weekend. Talisker, a real estate developer from Toronto, is trying to introduce a Congressional bill which would force the sale of a ridiculous 150' wide by 11,000' long parcel of public land, which would become a gash of private property right through the center of a large parcel of beloved Wasatch National Forest.

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