Ok, is there a max speed for ski lifts? the fastest i've ever seen a lift run is 1,100 feet/second or 5.59 m/s.
i noticed that the newer doppelmayr hsqs run at this speed, while the older ones operate at 1,000 fps. is this because of design restraints or what?
the same goes with the poma hsqs too.
-brad
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Lift Speeds
Started by coskibum, Nov 15 2003 05:24 PM
45 replies to this topic
#1
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#2
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Posted 15 November 2003 - 05:36 PM
Well Brad, the fastest lift I have ever seen must be a Riblet double chairlift. It was Eskimo of course running backwards. I bet that baby was going like 10 m/s or something. Hey this was Riblets first HSD, now only if they had a detachable grip. HAHA
Well, from looking at my Doppelmayr books, the gondolas have a line speed of 6 m/s, while the high speed quads have a max if 5.08 m/s. These lifts have the UNI-G terminal too, so I'm guessing that HSQ's can go atleast 7 or more m/s if they were allowed to. Gondolas are enclosed carriers so that allows them to travel at faster speeds, because people can't fall out as easy to.
I guess with new innovations such as grip designs and better designed equipment, they are able to crank up the speed than before.
Well, from looking at my Doppelmayr books, the gondolas have a line speed of 6 m/s, while the high speed quads have a max if 5.08 m/s. These lifts have the UNI-G terminal too, so I'm guessing that HSQ's can go atleast 7 or more m/s if they were allowed to. Gondolas are enclosed carriers so that allows them to travel at faster speeds, because people can't fall out as easy to.
I guess with new innovations such as grip designs and better designed equipment, they are able to crank up the speed than before.
- Cameron
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Posted 16 November 2003 - 08:54 AM
keystone has lift stats this year next to each chair and one is the max speed... on their newer dop hsqs it says 1,100 fpm and on the old ones 1000 fpm, which is similar to brecks. i was just wondering if 1,100 fpm was the max. i know the hsqs in blue sky basin seem to go faster, i'll see if they have stats this year too!
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Posted 17 November 2003 - 07:31 AM
Lift Speeds
Other items that factor into lift speed.
The amount of speed versus wear is very close to exponential.
The amount of chair swing in high crosswinds is very close to being proportional to lift speed.
The amount of chair swing is directly related to antacids purchased.
Before factory sealed electrical components became the norm, most Lift Maintenance departments readjusted the speed meters to read a higher speed than actually given. This is hard to check unless you know the "as built" chair spacing.
Most Lift Maintenance crews will find a sweet spot lower than the top speed unless the lift is a high capacity feeder to other lifts.
All lifts have overspeed devices that will stop the lift if a top speed setting is passed.
Most Lift Maintenance crews will raise the top speed if the lift happens to serve uncut powder.
Most lifts have acceleration and deceleration adjustability in their speed settings.
All lifts have a top speed under full load that is set by the horsepower of its prime mover.
Major factors that influence horsepower: rise, length, carrier interval and capacity.
The capacity of a lift is determined by the interval between carriers and capacity of the carriers rather than its speed.
Ryan B
Other items that factor into lift speed.
The amount of speed versus wear is very close to exponential.
The amount of chair swing in high crosswinds is very close to being proportional to lift speed.
The amount of chair swing is directly related to antacids purchased.
Before factory sealed electrical components became the norm, most Lift Maintenance departments readjusted the speed meters to read a higher speed than actually given. This is hard to check unless you know the "as built" chair spacing.
Most Lift Maintenance crews will find a sweet spot lower than the top speed unless the lift is a high capacity feeder to other lifts.
All lifts have overspeed devices that will stop the lift if a top speed setting is passed.
Most Lift Maintenance crews will raise the top speed if the lift happens to serve uncut powder.
Most lifts have acceleration and deceleration adjustability in their speed settings.
All lifts have a top speed under full load that is set by the horsepower of its prime mover.
Major factors that influence horsepower: rise, length, carrier interval and capacity.
The capacity of a lift is determined by the interval between carriers and capacity of the carriers rather than its speed.
Ryan B
#11
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Posted 17 November 2003 - 08:14 PM
The 'speed limit' on a lift is also a factor of loading ease. On a fixed grip, the loading interval and the line speed are directly related (obviously) and cannot be set much higher than the six-second interval currently in use. Without getting into the math, spacing the carriers six seconds apart and getting as high a capacity as you can results in a 500-fpm speed. Running a fixed grip any higher than that reults in increased equipment wear and lowered capacity, being as the chairs are spaced purther apart to maintain the six-second interval. Years back, the guys from Union Pacific Railroad (that's right!) found that the 500-fpm speed was about as high as one would want to go anyway, without making it more difficult to physically board the chair.
On a detachable lift, the speed limit is also related to the proportional speed of the terminal area. For example, the Flyer and other lifts like it load and unload at approximately 250 fpm, while their line speed is 1000. Thus, the chair must accelerate to 4 times its loading speed before it can clamp onto the rope. The greater the difference between terminal and line speeds, the longer the accel/decel area must be to avoid sudden acceleration and deceleration of the carriers. It is impractical, not to mention maintenance-intensive, to have a very long terminal. Thus detachable lifts run at 1200 or below these days.
Aerial trams run at about 2000 fpm, but they load and unload at a standstill.
The 'sweet spot' Ryan mentions is something that takes observation by the lifties and mechanics on that particular lift. What he refers to is the speed at which the lift runs more or less constantly, with the minimum number of stops. Any faster and people tend to have more misloads; any slower and customers complain. We run the flyer at 90% (900 fpm) because it is a beginner lift, while E-lift runs at top speed (1100) because the passengers are at least upper intermediates.
On a detachable lift, the speed limit is also related to the proportional speed of the terminal area. For example, the Flyer and other lifts like it load and unload at approximately 250 fpm, while their line speed is 1000. Thus, the chair must accelerate to 4 times its loading speed before it can clamp onto the rope. The greater the difference between terminal and line speeds, the longer the accel/decel area must be to avoid sudden acceleration and deceleration of the carriers. It is impractical, not to mention maintenance-intensive, to have a very long terminal. Thus detachable lifts run at 1200 or below these days.
Aerial trams run at about 2000 fpm, but they load and unload at a standstill.
The 'sweet spot' Ryan mentions is something that takes observation by the lifties and mechanics on that particular lift. What he refers to is the speed at which the lift runs more or less constantly, with the minimum number of stops. Any faster and people tend to have more misloads; any slower and customers complain. We run the flyer at 90% (900 fpm) because it is a beginner lift, while E-lift runs at top speed (1100) because the passengers are at least upper intermediates.
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:31 PM
Here is the Canadian limits by lift (detach not listed)
Pass. Single Double Triple Quad/More
Skier 3.0m/s 2.8m/s 2.5m/s 2.3m/s
Foot 1.8m.s 1.5m/s 1.4m/s 1.3m/s
This is from the Z98/2001 - they may have changed, I'll check.
Pass. Single Double Triple Quad/More
Skier 3.0m/s 2.8m/s 2.5m/s 2.3m/s
Foot 1.8m.s 1.5m/s 1.4m/s 1.3m/s
This is from the Z98/2001 - they may have changed, I'll check.
- Allan
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:33 PM
If I'm doing the math right, that's the same speeds we have in the B77, Allan.
In answer to your question, Jeff:
A, R, 4, 6, etc- 500 FPM. We'll run R a bit slower on weekends because it cuts down on the stops.
E and B can go up to 1100, although that will change depending on wind and mechanic's attitude. The guy responsible for the Bee runs it at 1000, I think, because that cuts down on equipment wear. On that particular lift, that's saving a great deal of time and money, and it's not a noticeable difference in ride time.
Dr Frankenstein- If you look at Allan's post, you'll see that single chairs may run at 3 m/s- is that where you got your figures? I have never seen a code or manufacturer manual that allows doubles, triples, etc. to run at that speed.
In answer to your question, Jeff:
A, R, 4, 6, etc- 500 FPM. We'll run R a bit slower on weekends because it cuts down on the stops.
E and B can go up to 1100, although that will change depending on wind and mechanic's attitude. The guy responsible for the Bee runs it at 1000, I think, because that cuts down on equipment wear. On that particular lift, that's saving a great deal of time and money, and it's not a noticeable difference in ride time.
Dr Frankenstein- If you look at Allan's post, you'll see that single chairs may run at 3 m/s- is that where you got your figures? I have never seen a code or manufacturer manual that allows doubles, triples, etc. to run at that speed.
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:38 PM
It seems to me when i skied there in 98 and 2000 they had the lift running around 800fpm on a clear sunny day. and this all the time. I personally feel that all lifts should be run @ full speed unless you have bad weather.
Jeff
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:51 PM
Jeff- when you consider all the variables in running a lift, there are many times besides bad weather when you might not want it to run at full speed. I have seen countless (and I'm not that old) occasions where running the lift at 80 or 90 percent actually shortened the ride time, because the lifties did not have to stop it every three chairs. And as Ryan has pointed out, the faster the lift runs, the faster parts wear out. All factors considered, full speed works on some lifts, but not all.
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:54 PM
Silverlode runs at 1.75m/s (344 fpm). If it was running at 2.5m/s - it would stop all the time as it's the beginner's lift. Even with it running that slow, it's contstantly stopping & running at half speed.
- Allan
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