166 replies to this topic

[k2skier]

cjb, on Sep 24 2008, 06:53 AM, said:

I get it, any increase is my SUV, and any decrease is an anomaly, thanks for clarifying.

One year of cooling can't offset 100 years of warming, and it applies the other way also.
The trend has been 100 years of warming with a mid-century cooling. With reports from NASA, NOAA and NSIDC, I think we could be seeing a mid-century cooling possible. The only way anyone will know for sure is to look back on 10-20+ years of data and look for any sort of a trend.

You have to consider all factors that effect this planets temps; oceans, the atmosphere, ice caps and the sun. We are in a prolonged "solar minimum" right now that started in the summer of 2006, possibly caused by the sun changing it's magnetic flux. I found this snippet in the paper just now.

http://www1.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/fe...r-20080923.html

No knee jerk reactions, just common sense and doing what's right. And polluting less helps out everyone and everything.

[LuvPow]

cjb, on Sep 24 2008, 06:46 AM, said:

Speaking of no experience, Obama had less than 5 months in the senate before he began working on a presidential campaign.

Big difference though..at least he is out there speaking, taking questions from the press.. talking about his plans. He also has a lot of experience prior to him becoming a Senator.
Palin is just a bunch of sound bites and photo ops... and this bridge to now where is her claim to fame, what a joke. Republicans are defending her just because of the party issue. How can you possibly say she is ready to be President of this county? It's preposterous.

This post has been edited by LuvPow: 24 September 2008 - 08:52 AM

[k2skier]

cjb, on Sep 24 2008, 07:01 AM, said:

The entire article goes on the unproven assumption of man-made global warming and does not address plateauing and dropping temperatures despite rising CO2.

One year of cooling temps does not prove a trend. 100 years of warming is a trend. It's all about sustainability. For the sake (sp?) of the ice caps, our glaciers and winter time snow sliding fun, (and world food production) I hope we see a cooling trend.

McCain/Palin=4 more years of the same.
Obama/Biden=hopefully something different.

I like Jesse "The Body" Ventura, former governor of Minnesota's idea, Have a box to mark "NONE OF THE ABOVE".

Until we can start crossing party lines and doing what's right we'll continue on as we have the for the last 30 years.

[Callao]

k2skier, on Sep 24 2008, 10:57 AM, said:

Until we can start crossing party lines and doing what's right we'll continue on as we have the for the last 30 years.

Good idea. You start.
The problem with all the disgruntled voters now is they are so angry with the Republican party, that they will vote for anything else that moves just for spite, even if their alternative is worse.

I know that as I vote Republican this November, I am voting for a lot of problems. But after a lot of in-depth research, I am convinced that the alternative is even worse.

It's really too bad that the fate of this country is in the hands of so many ignorant people. Since stupid people can only be duped into making any decision, by the grace of heaven I hope the ignorant masses of dolts can be duped into making a wise choice, as opposed to the knee-jerk reaction of voting contrary to status-quo in their anger.

Speaking of knee-jerk, let's dump all our SUV's off a cliff, and eat tofu for every meal. It will curb global warming. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Chill out and stop imposing your new religion on us and your children's children. Let's enjoy the boon of a warming earth. It won't be warming for long.

Refute me with your glass ball, Impulsive.

[k2skier]

Callao, on Sep 24 2008, 11:32 AM, said:

Good idea. You start.


Speaking of knee-jerk, let's dump all our SUV's off a cliff, and eat tofu for every meal. It will curb global warming. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Chill out and stop imposing your new religion on us and your children's children. Let's enjoy the boon of a warming earth. It won't be warming for long.

Refute me with your glass ball, Impulsive.

What?! This is what I said; No knee jerk reactions, just common sense and doing what's right. And polluting less helps out everyone and everything.

The only thing that's certain is our dynamic weather on this planet will constantly change. No religion, just common sense and sustainability.

[skiersage]

k2skier, on Sep 24 2008, 10:31 AM, said:

We are in a prolonged "solar minimum" right now that started in the summer of 2006, possibly caused by the sun changing it's magnetic flux. I found this snippet in the paper just now.

This brings up an interesting point. I remember someone saying to me a couple of years back that the temperature on some of the other planets in our solar system were reported to have an increase as well. While I have no idea if this is true or not, the point is is that we a living on a small planet in a large universe. Everyone is so eager to say we humans are responsible for the change in climate on our planet. But the truth is we probably aren't. It is more likely something on a much larger scale that we have no control over. And I imagine that it has to deal with our sun aging as well. With that said, don't worry about it. Life is too short to go on worrying about something that we have no control over.

With this said I think we should end this whole global warming debate once and for all. The is nothing anyone can say about it that hasn't already been said in so many other places on the internet.

k2skier, on Sep 24 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

I like Jesse "The Body" Ventura, former governor of Minnesota's idea, Have a box to mark "NONE OF THE ABOVE".

If that is the way you feel then just don't vote. I know tons of people that don't vote in the presidential elections for just that reason.

Quote

Until we can start crossing party lines and doing what's right we'll continue on as we have the for the last 30 years.

Of course we are going to continue on as we have these past thirty years. think about it. Has anything catastrophic happened since 1978? No. For the most part everything has been smooth sailing for this country in that time frame. And everyone knows that humans don't like to change their ways when things are going good. It will take some huge disaster to make us change. It just comes down to human nature.

[LuvPow]

"Of course we are going to continue on as we have these past thirty years. think about it. Has anything catastrophic happened since 1978? No. For the most part everything has been smooth sailing for this country in that time frame. And everyone knows that humans don't like to change their ways when things are going good. It will take some huge disaster to make us change. It just comes down to human nature."

I think I would have to say that this economy right now is fairly catastrophic.

"It's really too bad that the fate of this country is in the hands of so many ignorant people. Since stupid people can only be duped into making any decision, by the grace of heaven I hope the ignorant masses of dolts can be duped into making a wise choice, as opposed to the knee-jerk reaction of voting contrary to status-quo in their anger."
So I guess you see yourself as the only one that is impartial? Who is clinging onto to their personal opinions now? If folks don't agree with you they are ignorant ? .. a true republican.

This post has been edited by LuvPow: 24 September 2008 - 01:42 PM

[cjb]

k2skier, on Sep 24 2008, 11:47 AM, said:

And polluting less helps out everyone and everything.

This is absolutely not true.

[k2skier]

cjb, on Sep 24 2008, 03:38 PM, said:

This is absolutely not true.

Then polluting more helps out everyone and everything? Care to elaborate?

My comment was referring to something like this;"The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world that it leaves to its children. ~D. Bonhoeffer"

This post has been edited by k2skier: 24 September 2008 - 02:46 PM

[Andoman]

k2skier, on Sep 24 2008, 12:01 AM, said:

The author Michael Asher headlines the article; Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming. Are you serious? Are you being sarcastic? The guy has zero credibility. No scientist with even a minor in the science field would publish anything so untrue. One year is an anomaly, not a trend. And last years anomaly ROCKED!

He goes on to say; All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

And here's what NASA's GISS reports; A new NASA-led study shows human-caused climate change has made an impact on a wide range of Earth's natural systems, including permafrost thawing, plants blooming earlier across Europe, and lakes declining in productivity in Africa.

"This is the first study to link global temperature data sets, climate model results, and observed changes in a broad range of physical and biological systems to show the link between humans, climate, and impacts," said Rosenzweig, lead author of the study.

http://www.giss.nasa.../news/20080514/

At least pick someone's blog that's credible, jeeez.

Oh Oh Oh......my scientist is better than your scientist. My scientist believes the same thing as me so that makes him right. This argument is similar to my religious beliefs are better than your religious beliefs. Scientist are trying to look at a infinitely small spec of time and make a trend, geologically speaking of course. The planet is billions and billions (unless you're on of the 6,000 year old crazy kool-aid drinkers) of years old and global warming scientists are looking at 100 or 1000 years of time. That's the same as doing statistics with two data points, it makes a nice straight trend line but the focus of the data is too narrow to extrapolate anything useable. The believers of global warming like to look at some tree ring growths and extrapolate large quantities of data without looking at outside forces AKA the sun, fire breathing dragons, or sharks with frick'in lasers on their heads Muah ha ha ha ha ha . I'll save my judgment on global warming until the next global cooling (mini ice age) occurs.

[k2skier]

Andoman, on Sep 24 2008, 04:02 PM, said:

Oh Oh Oh......my scientist is better than your scientist. My scientist believes the same thing as me so that makes him right. This argument is similar to my religious beliefs are better than your religious beliefs. Scientist are trying to look at a infinitely small spec of time and make a trend, geologically speaking of course. The planet is billions and billions (unless you're on of the 6,000 year old crazy kool-aid drinkers) of years old and global warming scientists are looking at 100 or 1000 years of time. That's the same as doing statistics with two data points, it makes a nice straight trend line but the focus of the data is too narrow to extrapolate anything useable. The believers of global warming like to look at some tree ring growths and extrapolate large quantities of data without looking at outside forces AKA the sun, fire breathing dragons, or sharks with frick'in lasers on their heads Muah ha ha ha ha ha . I'll save my judgment on global warming until the next global cooling (mini ice age) occurs.

That wasn't quite my point. Creditable scientists study data and draw a conclusion from that data. People like Michael Asher already have a conclusion then try to fit their data to back their conclusion (kinda like Christian Science). Anyone who can make the claim that one year of cooling can wipe out a century of warming is beyond delusional, and as I said in an earlier post it goes for the other way also. I hope we are on a cooling trend, more powder=more face shots
You are correct, even 100 or 100,000 years is just a blink of the eye in the life of our planet.

[zeedotcom]

I think I would have to say that this economy right now is fairly catastrophic.

Think back just a little bit. It wasn't all that long ago that the DOW broke 10,000. We really aren't any further back using that as a guideline than just a few years ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...ack-668226.html

Not pleading a case one way or another, just trying to keep things in perspective.

As far as voting, my thoughts are this: If you don't make the effort to participate in the process, you don't get to complain about it. Politics is always about the lessor of two evils.

[LuvPow]

zeedotcom, on Sep 24 2008, 05:01 PM, said:

I think I would have to say that this economy right now is fairly catastrophic.

Think back just a little bit. It wasn't all that long ago that the DOW broke 10,000. We really aren't any further back using that as a guideline than just a few years ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...ack-668226.html

Not pleading a case one way or another, just trying to keep things in perspective.

As far as voting, my thoughts are this: If you don't make the effort to participate in the process, you don't get to complain about it. Politics is always about the lessor of two evils.

I don't think you can use the DOW as the only way to gauge our economic issues... we are about to take on a 16 trillion debt !! I can't imagine that number, your great grandkids will be paying this off.

[Callao]

LuvPow, on Sep 24 2008, 03:36 PM, said:

"It's really too bad that the fate of this country is in the hands of so many ignorant people. Since stupid people can only be duped into making any decision, by the grace of heaven I hope the ignorant masses of dolts can be duped into making a wise choice, as opposed to the knee-jerk reaction of voting contrary to status-quo in their anger."
So I guess you see yourself as the only one that is impartial? Who is clinging onto to their personal opinions now? If folks don't agree with you they are ignorant ? .. a true republican.

Au contraire! I am absolutely partial now. I have made up my mind, you see. After studying it out (although I continue to study), I have a personal opinion.

Nor am the only one who isn't ignorant (on this subject alone). In fact, there are many democrats who are not ignorant. They just have a fundamentally different view on life, and I am ok with that.

[cjb]

k2skier, on Sep 24 2008, 03:43 PM, said:

And polluting less helps out everyone and everything.

If I retire my vehicles, shut down my utility power tonight, and do not return to my fossil fuel dependent ski area job then I will certainly not be helping myself or my family or my employer, or the employees of businesses I frequent. Even though I am polluting less!

If countries in Africa build and operate a coal fired plant to provide electricity to an area then they will pollute MORE, but will also provide for things like running water, sanitary plumbing, food refrigeration and countless other things we consider necessary. (and things that will save tens of thousands of lives each year) Too bad they are being blackmailed and strongarmed into green energy (mostly by UN and EU) whcih means 1/2 the power for 5 times the cost. If they get anything.
Therefore polluting less does not help everyone and everything.

LuvPow, on Sep 24 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

I don't think you can use the DOW as the only way to gauge our economic issues... we are about to take on a 16 trillion debt !! I can't imagine that number, your great grandkids will be paying this off.

Unemployment, GDP, tax revenue, inflation, pretty much everything is at or near historic low/averages. Good thing we have the debt or there would be nothing left to complain about. Of course we've got the current lending mess but that gets spread out over all of the last 16 years, and neither of the last two Presidents had a whole lot to do with it or a whole lot of power to change it.

[k2skier]

cjb, on Sep 24 2008, 07:29 PM, said:

If I retire my vehicles, shut down my utility power tonight, and do not return to my fossil fuel dependent ski area job then I will certainly not be helping myself or my family or my employer, or the employees of businesses I frequent. Even though I am polluting less!

If countries in Africa build and operate a coal fired plant to provide electricity to an area then they will pollute MORE, but will also provide for things like running water, sanitary plumbing, food refrigeration and countless other things we consider necessary. (and things that will save tens of thousands of lives each year) Too bad they are being blackmailed and strongarmed into green energy (mostly by UN and EU) whcih means 1/2 the power for 5 times the cost. If they get anything.
Therefore polluting less does not help everyone and everything.



Unemployment, GDP, tax revenue, inflation, pretty much everything is at or near historic low/averages. Good thing we have the debt or there would be nothing left to complain about. Of course we've got the current lending mess but that gets spread out over all of the last 16 years, and neither of the last two Presidents had a whole lot to do with it or a whole lot of power to change it.

I said "less" not try to stop polluting all together.

We need more long term sustainable thinking for our power needs.

[cjb]

k2skier, on Sep 25 2008, 09:12 AM, said:

I said "less" not try to stop polluting all together.

We need more long term sustainable thinking for our power needs.

Ahh, but you said less is always better for all when it obviously isn't, and we need long term sustainable ACTION, as Al Gore has shown all of the "thinking" in the world won't help when you are not willing to act.
Of course as the saying goes "Do as I say, not as I do"

[k2skier]

cjb, on Sep 25 2008, 02:41 PM, said:

Ahh, but you said less is always better for all when it obviously isn't, and we need long term sustainable ACTION, as Al Gore has shown all of the "thinking" in the world won't help when you are not willing to act.
Of course as the saying goes "Do as I say, not as I do"

Nope, you completely missed it, and mis-quoted me again. I never said always. For someone who has admitted to living green and sustainable you sure don't talk like it. I have cut my fossil fuel consumption by about 25%, electricity by 15% and water usage by 20%, I act, not just talk.

BTW, Al's movie was pure propaganda. Just because someone says that they believe the majority of scientist, that man does have some influence on the climate, doesn't mean that they are over the top wackos like Al Gore clones. But that's what Republicans do, ( as you have mis-quoted me at least twice and put words in my mouth more than once) they over-react to anything that doesn't fit their agenda. I have never said we need to do anything drastic, but if we all pollute less, then only good will become of it. I'm sure you'll find some way to over-react to this also.

[cjb]

k2skier, on Sep 25 2008, 03:34 PM, said:

Nope, you completely missed it, and mis-quoted me again. I never said always. For someone who has admitted to living green and sustainable you sure don't talk like it. I have cut my fossil fuel consumption by about 25%, electricity by 15% and water usage by 20%, I act, not just talk.

BTW, Al's movie was pure propaganda. Just because someone says that they believe the majority of scientist, that man does have some influence on the climate, doesn't mean that they are over the top wackos like Al Gore clones. But that's what Republicans do, ( as you have mis-quoted me at least twice and put words in my mouth more than once) they over-react to anything that doesn't fit their agenda. I have never said we need to do anything drastic, but if we all pollute less, then only good will become of it. I'm sure you'll find some way to over-react to this also.

You said "polluting less helps out everyone and everything" not 'sometimes helps out', not 'is usually the better course of action', not 'is an admirable goal and quality for individuals and corporations'. You were stating an absolute "polluting less helps out EVERYONE and EVERYTHING"; I did not misquote you as I did not use quotes. I rephrased what you said accurately to point out how illogical and erroneous of a statement it was.

[k2skier]

It's time for some campaigning.

http://www.peteyandp...re/VoteHere.htm