166 replies to this topic

[zeedotcom]

While I am not necessarily a Bush supporter, we must consider that certain factors were significantly beyond his control. There is NO WAY that the 9/11 attacks were planned strictly during his time in office. While in retrospect certain actions, such as invading Iraq, may not have been appropriate. However, intelligence at the time suggested otherwise.

In the last three years, the price of fuel has gone up considerably. Whether you blame that on the current administration and the administration only is up to you. I do know for a fact that I see a decrease in the number of SUVs/trucks over the last few years. This means that they can't pull their boat and or are also getting rid of that fuel using luxury item.

An example in every economics book is gas. In the short run, a spike in gas prices won't have much effect on our consumption. Over time, you will elect to move closer to work, carpool, buy a more efficient vehicle, etc.

For what its worth, my personal opinion is we need a Manhattan project style undertaking working on controlled Nuclear Fusion. If it can be harnessed, the cost of electricity will drop to little more than the cost of transmission. At that point, you can suck carbon out of the air and make it into whatever you want. The "cost" of things basically plummets. Ethanol is relatively inefficient because you put so much energy into making it. Free energy removes the inefficiency, making Ethanol, fuel cell, etc no big deal.

Just my random thoughts.

[Andoman]

k2skier, on Sep 15 2008, 04:12 PM, said:

I have owned my own business since 1985 (mechanical repairs on boats and lawn and garden equipment) and have run it by myself since 1994, and the last 3 years have been the worst profit years ever.

You should read the book by Craig Unger; House of Bush House of Saud, it will open your eyes on what criminal activities Bush and his cronies have committed.

Another interesting read is a book by Robert Baer; Sleeping With the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude.

I don't want to offend here but I'm going to, sorry. In a bad economy mechanic/repair type businesses do quite well. My caterpillar dealer said this is going to be a record setting year for the repair side of the business because nobody is buying new equipment. Our repair guy for our equipment said he hasn't had a week with under 80 hours since spring. The TV repair man I just took my TV to said exactly the same thing, and this is coming from the state of Michigan that is beyond a recession we're in a single state depression. So, I would take a look at your advertising strategy, employee compensation, or the rates your charging because something isn't in line. As for the books, that's like me asking you to read Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity's new book, I doubt that is going to happen. Now I just have to find a TV repair man with less than a three week back log.

[k2skier]

Andoman, on Sep 15 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

I don't want to offend here but I'm going to, sorry. In a bad economy mechanic/repair type businesses do quite well. My caterpillar dealer said this is going to be a record setting year for the repair side of the business because nobody is buying new equipment. Our repair guy for our equipment said he hasn't had a week with under 80 hours since spring. The TV repair man I just took my TV to said exactly the same thing, and this is coming from the state of Michigan that is beyond a recession we're in a single state depression. So, I would take a look at your advertising strategy, employee compensation, or the rates your charging because something isn't in line. As for the books, that's like me asking you to read Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity's new book, I doubt that is going to happen. Now I just have to find a TV repair man with less than a three week back log.

No offense taken, a Republican acquaintance tried to tell me the same thing, what a laugh. If you had a sole proprietorship you might not be a Republican yourself.

George W Bush has shown that he doesn't care about the middle class, his only concern is keeping himself and his "guys" in the black. It's odd how he can take a budget surplus and turn it into a record deficit. What happened to Republicans being conservative?

2006 was off due to an odd weather year, 2007 was off due to the economy tightening, and 2008 has been on par to last 2 years, mainly because of the gas prices.

The books don't bash Republicans, they state facts as they happened. Rush is the biggest embellisher of all time, no comparison at all.

I'm a sole proprietor, no employee's. We have an established business, 3 generations, started in 1927, same location since 1941. I advertise in 6 phone books and have a small web site, I know how to take care of my business. I repair middle America type of boaters, when middle America doesn't have money to spend, businesses are hurt, period.

I have talked to auto repair shops, other marinas and mower shops, even the body shop across the street, (I have talked to friends from Seattle to Sacramento that run their own shops) EVERYONE says business is slow and tight right now. So maybe your part of the county may be different but in the Pacific Northwest, people aren't doing maintenance at all, and just the minimum of repairs at this time. Curious, who fixes old TV's with most becoming obsolete soon anyway?

Arggghhhh, new avatar doesn't slap Bush

This post has been edited by k2skier: 15 September 2008 - 05:53 PM

[cjb]

k2skier, on Sep 15 2008, 06:51 PM, said:

George W Bush has shown that he doesn't care about the middle class, his only concern is keeping himself and his "guys" in the black.

This statement alone shows that you are not at all impartial or honest about the subject, falls right back into the 'ranting' section. Business was down for you in 2006 due to weather? Don't forget to blame that on Bush induced global warming, along with the hurricanes. I am pretty sure he's out to get me too, what with the tax reductions, colluding with big oil to gouge us, (but I don't know why they have "let" the price drop over $50 per bbl the last few months), and just being an evil rich white guy in the first place. After all we all know what they are like!

[cjb]

I read today that Obama stated he is going to lower taxes for 95% of Americans.

Pretty impressive considering that barely over 50% of Americans pay income tax.

Anyone out there that can figure out the math on that one let me know.

[mikest2]

cjb, on Sep 15 2008, 08:31 PM, said:

I read today that Obama stated he is going to lower taxes for 95% of Americans.

Pretty impressive considering that barely over 50% of Americans pay income tax.

Anyone out there that can figure out the math on that one let me know.

I graduated in 1974, in Canada, and I am not familiar with the new math (did not take statistical math). Up here we have an election coming. Our issues are not if anyone has done anything bad, but more......has anyone done anything at all ?

[Peter]

cjb, on Sep 15 2008, 08:31 PM, said:

I read today that Obama stated he is going to lower taxes for 95% of Americans.

Pretty impressive considering that barely over 50% of Americans pay income tax.

Anyone out there that can figure out the math on that one let me know.

I really wish the candidates were talking about this kind of stuff.

Instead, it's about some bridge in Alaska that was never built, Russia being next to Alaska, etc.

The Republicans are doing something right. How is it that the incumbent party can have a terrible economy, and unpopular war, a 32% approval rating and be dead even in the polls?

I'm excited for the debates when hopefully they will focus on the issues and plans. The VP debate will surely be exciting.

[Callao]

k2skier, on Sep 15 2008, 07:51 PM, said:

If you had a sole proprietorship you might not be a Republican yourself.

Hmm. You ought to consider forming a limited liability company, or an S-Corp. No wonder you are struggling. Then again, there could be your emotional factor . . . I hope you don't take that to work. I wish you wouldn't rant so much here, either.

MSNBC reports today that McCain has 46% approval, with Obama trailing at 42%. I didn't hear the margin of error, though. K2Skier, if I was you, I would watch out. There must be a conspiracy going on, and I think they are out to get you!

[CH3skier]

Hmm. You ought to consider forming a limited liability company, or an S-Corp. No wonder you are struggling.

A sole prop can be an LLC and it 's not going to change your income. A S-Corp income is still taxable on the personal tax return. The only option is to pay it as a salary or divs, but you still have to have revenue to do either.

This post has been edited by CH3skier: 16 September 2008 - 08:46 PM

[k2skier]

CH3skier, on Sep 16 2008, 09:45 PM, said:

Hmm. You ought to consider forming a limited liability company, or an S-Corp. No wonder you are struggling.
Don't put words in my mouth, I never said struggling, I said worst profit years.

A sole prop can be an LLC and it 's not going to change your income. A S-Corp income is still taxable on the personal tax return. The only option is to pay it as a salary or divs, but you still have to have revenue to do either.

I have looked into that a couple of different times. The savings in a couple hundred dollars tax wise is offset by a larger tax preparing bill, by almost the same amount. I have worked the number with 3 different CPA's and I need to gross about $10-15K more to make it financially feasible. Are you familiar with Oregon tax codes and laws? Doesn't sound like it.

I'm not struggling, I just don't have a lot extra now, and changing to a corp of any kind wouldn't change my income one bit, just a "little" less in taxes. I still have enough to race our boats in the APBA with my son and buy season passes for us at MHM, things aren't terrible, just tightening up is all. My best income years were when Clinton was pres, and my worst income years were with Bush as pres, huh, go figure.

The financial climate is cyclical, people get nervous and tight during an election year anyway, and with most of middle America cutting back it will just take a little longer for the up swing.

Anyone else subscribe to Powder Mag? The spread about last seasons awsome winter is making me jones real hard right now. Can't wiat for the snow to fly!

Hey, even if McCain gets elected he couldn't possibly be as bad as George "the terrorist" Bush, that's something to look forward to.

cjb, on Sep 15 2008, 08:31 PM, said:

I read today that Obama stated he is going to lower taxes for 95% of Americans.

Pretty impressive considering that barely over 50% of Americans pay income tax.

Anyone out there that can figure out the math on that one let me know.

And 5% of those that pay taxes, pay 50% of all taxes paid.

cjb, on Sep 15 2008, 08:28 PM, said:

This statement alone shows that you are not at all impartial or honest about the subject, falls right back into the 'ranting' section. Business was down for you in 2006 due to weather? Don't forget to blame that on Bush induced global warming, along with the hurricanes. I am pretty sure he's out to get me too, what with the tax reductions, colluding with big oil to gouge us, (but I don't know why they have "let" the price drop over $50 per bbl the last few months), and just being an evil rich white guy in the first place. After all we all know what they are like!

Enlighten me; what has Bush done to help the middle class? What do you consider his top 3 most important accomplishments of his 2 terms?

It's not just me.

http://hnn.us/articles/5019.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/s...dent_in_history

http://www.commondre...s05/0708-27.htm

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...modern-history/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6120101509.html

http://www.harpers.o...04/hbc-90002804

And this is the best I could find.

http://www.theseminal.com/2007/05/29/georg...president-ever/

[Callao]

I bet I could post more links than you. But I don't think that links will convince you. Do you still want them?

I've also got sound logic up my sleeves, but I think that for some people like ranters, emotional arguments and fallacy-laden accusations are more effective. So in that case, I would like to blame the world's problems on somebody's mother.

And your dog is ugly.

[cjb]

k2skier, on Sep 17 2008, 06:49 PM, said:

Are you familiar with Oregon tax codes and laws? Doesn't sound like it."

Sounds like your problem is with your state not the president.


Hey, even if McCain gets elected he couldn't possibly be as bad as George "the terrorist" Bush, that's something to look forward to.

Of course by the sounds of this, there is no occurance anywhere that is not his fault.

[k2skier]

Callao, on Sep 17 2008, 07:51 PM, said:

I bet I could post more links than you. But I don't think that links will convince you. Do you still want them?

I've also got sound logic up my sleeves, but I think that for some people like ranters, emotional arguments and fallacy-laden accusations are more effective. So in that case, I would like to blame the world's problems on somebody's mother.

And your dog is ugly.

+
Yes please, that was the point.

cjb, on Sep 17 2008, 08:01 PM, said:

Of course by the sounds of this, there is no occurance anywhere that is not his fault.

I asked you a serious question with no repsonse??? I was really hoping you give a serious reply.

Here it is again;Enlighten me; what has Bush done to help the middle class? What do you consider his top 3 most important accomplishments of his 2 terms?

And please don't mix topics, incorporating my business and the financial situation of the country, are two completely different subjects.

[cjb]

k2skier, on Sep 18 2008, 06:32 AM, said:

And please don't mix topics, incorporating my business and the financial situation of the country, are two completely different subjects.

They were both in the same post.

"Hey, even if McCain gets elected he couldn't possibly be as bad as George "the terrorist" Bush, that's something to look forward to."

Look back on 9/5/72, 9/8/74, 11/4/79, 4/18/83, 10/7/84, 12/21/88, 2/26/93, 4/19/95, 4/20/99, 10/12/2000, and in case you forgot 9/11/01, to see what terrorism really is.

This post has been edited by cjb: 18 September 2008 - 09:27 AM

[Emax]

Considering the major candidates, could this finally be the year that Ralph Nader gets elected?
I've hated the bastard ever since he wrote Unsafe at Any Speed and, in doing so, doomed the Corvair - and although I've never been in his presence, I'm convinced that he smells funny. People whose diet consists entirely of wicker swing sets, nuts and berries are like that.

Under his presidency, we will all be watched - George Orwell-style - nothing will escape notice. I can see it now - we will finally take that last step: ceasing ALL production - ALL creativity and become TOTAL consumers. But by God, we'll be protected. Not yet sure where we'll get the funds to purchase the "consumables" - but if we're able to, they'll be safe. Is anything made in China really safe?

[Callao]

k2skier, on Sep 17 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

Enlighten me; what has Bush done to help the middle class? What do you consider his top 3 most important accomplishments of his 2 terms?

Why do you want to know? You won't believe it anyway. But for everybody else, I'll take the swing. I won't speak for the Bush Administration, so I'll just tell you a few of the things Bush has done that I actually like.

1. He signed into law the first ban on partial-birth abortion.

2. He boosted aid to Africa three-fold.

3. He had the balls to stand against terrorism. Proving why something didn't happen is difficult, but I highly suspect that may have contributed to the minimal amount of terrorist presence on American turf since 2001, something I greatly appreciate.

4. Tax cuts. This happened for the top four income tax brackets (your employers). This also came with the more popular "middle-class" tax cuts, which some economists criticize.

All things are pretty good things. At least, they are good things for me, a normal, middle-American. We've heard a lot of the bad, which we acknowledge, but I hope a few comments on the good things will be refreshing to hear. You can go ahead and refute these things, but I personally still like them.

[cjb]

Callao, on Sep 18 2008, 04:20 PM, said:

Why do you want to know? You won't believe it anyway. But for everybody else, I'll take the swing. I won't speak for the Bush Administration, so I'll just tell you a few of the things Bush has done that I actually like.

1. He signed into law the first ban on partial-birth abortion.

2. He boosted aid to Africa three-fold.

3. He had the balls to stand against terrorism. Proving why something didn't happen is difficult, but I highly suspect that may have contributed to the minimal amount of terrorist presence on American turf since 2001, something I greatly appreciate.

4. Tax cuts. This happened for the top four income tax brackets (your employers). This also came with the more popular "middle-class" tax cuts, which some economists criticize.

All things are pretty good things. At least, they are good things for me, a normal, middle-American. We've heard a lot of the bad, which we acknowledge, but I hope a few comments on the good things will be refreshing to hear. You can go ahead and refute these things, but I personally still like them.

1. I don't see how anyone could support this. (of course Obama even supports doctors denying care to infants that survive abortion attempts, what is next a two week trial period before your retroactive abortion time runs out?)

2. I am not sure I support alot of this for one reason. (Nohting against Africa, my dad is in Sudan right now training military chaplains) Too much "aid" goes to corrupt governments. Most African countries have plentiful natural resources but without some freedom in the economy they will forever be poverty stricken.

3. Seven years without a middle class American, or any American in America dying of a terrorist attack, if you were told in 2001 that we would reach the 7th anniversary of 9/11 (that is a real terrorist action for those that are confused) without another attack on American soil you would not have believed, I wouldn't have.

4. I don't know any numbers on this and am not about to look them up, it is real basic. Why aren't taxes cut for the poor? Because they don't pay any. How can you take less than zero? I am not in any of those top four income or tax brackets, but I still support taxing anyone less.

[cjb]

I am not a fan of posting links but here is great article that gives a unique view into the possible outcome of the US based on the current status of the states each of the two presidential candidates represents. And it is a real article from a real (and mostly honest) news csource, not ignorant hating by deluded college students aping their college proffessors anti-american lecture from the day before.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1221262820...ss_opinion_main

[cjb]

5. By refusing to sign the Kyoto accord he kept the economy going instead of allowing for regulations and limits that would have resulted in billions of dollars of expense to private business. Funny to see alot of the (facts?) of global warming and man-made global warming unraveling as real unbiased scientists look at real data and not unrealistic computer models.

[Callao]

cjb, on Sep 18 2008, 08:36 PM, said:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1221262820...ss_opinion_main

Great article. For anybody who would rather have a synopsis, the link is to a a Wall Street Journal Article (Sept. 13, 2008) titled "If You Like Michigan's Economy, You'll Love Obama's." The major premises and conclusions are these:

1. Between our candidates' economic policies, we can look to states that have already implemented the two proposed national economic plans.

2. The best performing states in 2006 were Texas, Florida, and Arizona. The losing states were Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. The article looks into the variables that define the two, and compare it to our candidates' economic policies.

3. Performance is shown to be explained by "governance, taxes and regulatory policy matter," which play a significant role in drawing in or expelling business, capital, and labor between states.

4. The losing states had both higher minimum wages and a higher amount of unionization. On the other hand, the winning states are "right to work states."

5."In the name of taxing the rich, Mr. Obama would raise the marginal tax rates to over 50% on millions of small businesses that provide 75% of all new jobs in America."

6. "Mr. Obama would spend all the savings from walking out of Iraq to expand the government. Mr. McCain would reserve all the savings from our success in Iraq to shrink the deficit."

7. "Mr. Obama would stimulate the economy by increasing federal spending. Mr. McCain would stimulate the economy by cutting the corporate tax rate. Mr. Obama would expand unionism by denying workers the right to a secret ballot on the decision to form a union, and would dramatically increase the minimum wage."

8. Obama's economic policies have already been tested--and though businesses under the losing states' economic conditions can move out of state, we now have the option of imposing those same economies on the nation as a whole.

I would like to add that businesses will not stay in the U.S. if the economic policies are better elsewhere, again, taking with them their capital, and labor.