54 replies to this topic

[sseguin613]

I know this is a very broad question, but what are the major differences in design and construction between Doppelmayr and Poma lifts?

What things do you think in your opinion are better on one than the other.

[Peter]

Here's what I know
The basic design of both brands are the same.

The Poma tensioning system on detachables has both terminals on rollers that are moved by hydraulic rams. The Doppelmayr detachables only have tensioning in one station and the hydraulics only move the bullwheel. The bullwheels on Doppelmayrs also are slanted, not parallel with the ground.

Doppelmayr detachables can run in reverse and have chair parking in the terminals, Pomas do not do either.

The construction seems different, too. Poma terminals come largely pre-assembled from the factory and Doppelmayrs seem to be assebled more on site.

As for the fixed grips, they are pretty similar. Poma uses the Alpha model drive/tension terminal on all their lifts, while Doppelmayr has a variety of different drive and tension configurations.

That's what I can think of for now...

[SkiBachelor]

Quote

The Doppelmayr detachables only have tensioning in one station and the hydraulics only move the bullwheel.

Several Doppelmayr detachables have tensioning at both ends. The Northwest Express at Mt. Bachelor and Summit Express at Keystone are good examples.

[sseguin613]

how do dopps park the chairs in the terminals? how many chairs can fit in a typical terminal?

[RibStaThiok]

Here is an example of how they park the chairs. This is a Dopp HSQ at Snowbasin. You can see the silver doors there and they can fit ALL the chairs in there This has underground parking as well) Some resorts do not have indoor storage like this and will park the chairs in a holding area.

This post has been edited by RibStaThio: 24 April 2008 - 06:26 PM

[Peter]

This is not the chair parking that is unique to Doppelmayr. Doppelmar has another system where chairs can be parked in tire banks of the terminal. I'll try and find a picture.

[mikest2]

Fords and Chevies.
My newest Poma runs just fine in reverse, it's just a bitch to load the chairs. Two of my Dopps have passive (hydraulicaly resettable) return carriages just like the Poma Competition

[SkiBachelor]

Pictures of carriers parked in the terminal can be found here:

http://www.skiliftfo...?showtopic=6538

[northeastskier]

Skier, on Apr 24 2008, 07:28 PM, said:

This is not the chair parking that is unique to Doppelmayr. Doppelmar has another system where chairs can be parked in tire banks of the terminal. I'll try and find a picture.

Poma also has chair parking like Doppelmayr. One example is the Northwoods Gondola at Gore!

[skisox34]

What they are talking about is the parking in the terminal with no outside terminal parking. It is mostly used in europe I believe. It basically involves seperately powering all of the tires in the turnaround section and stopping the chairs all around the terminal!

[lastchair_44]

I think all the options that have been discussed are available on both manufacturers' lifts. All you need to do is tell them what you want and have the money to do it. Having worked on Poma, Dopp CTEC, and Garaventa CTEC detacahables, I'll agree with mikest's comment that it's an argument similar to the Ford and Chevy argument.

[2milehi]

SkiBachelor, on Apr 24 2008, 04:22 PM, said:

Several Doppelmayr detachables have tensioning at both ends. The Northwest Express at Mt. Bachelor and Summit Express at Keystone are good examples.

Only Peru, Montezuma, and Outback have tensioning at both ends. Summit and Santiago have tensioning at the return.

[Lift Kid]

Just for the record, there are a bunch of lifts in the US that have in-terminal chair parking. A couple of the detaches at Telluride are an example!

[SkiBachelor]

Telluride's HSQs have a custom built terminal and the reason why those carriers are parked in the bottom terminal like that is because that's the maintenance bay.

[SuperRat]

Doppelmayr's terminal parking system uses hydraulic rams to raise part of the tire conveyor and this allows the chairs to be pushed (parked) together. The acceleration and deceleration sections of the conveyors remain in postion to open and close the grips.

The manuals for our 2007 Uni-GS included some photos and operational guides for this system even though our lift doesn't include this feature.

[bushmogulmaster]

From what I've seen, most Doppelmayr detachable grips in the US are torsion bar/over-center grips, whereas Poma uses the coil spring setup. I believe Doppelmayr is using their Agamatic coil spring grip in Europe, and on a few select installations in the US (i.e. Beaver Creek).

The supposed advantage to the over-center grip is fewer open/close cycles. However, when the grip opens coming into decel, the operating lever is pushed over-center and locks open all the way through the station or terminal. This would seem to hold pressure on the torsion bar or the belleville washers for a longer period of time, possibly reducing their overall life. Apparently, some European countries have outright banned the use of an over-center grip due to several failures.

With a non-overcenter grip (like the Poma grip, or Doppelmayr's Agamatic grip), you have twice the number of compression/releases, but the spring packs are under that force for a shorter period.

[SuperRat]

Doppelmayr CTEC's Agamatic is gaining in numbers in North America. The majority of last year's installations had them. At the new installation orientation in Salt Lake last August about a dozen new lifts were represented. When we were informally polled on grip type only a few people indicated they were getting the DT-grip (Loon, Heavenly & Texas). I wish I remembered more details. I did find pictures of 2007 Agamatics on Brighton's new Millicent lift, Deer Valley's Lady Morgan, Schweitzer's Basin Express, Homewood's new detachable, Squaw's Shirley Lake and Snowbird's Peruvian (2006).

This post has been edited by SuperRat: 27 April 2008 - 05:47 AM

[Peter]

Here is the complete list from last year, 10 Agamatics and 7 DT-104s

Beaver Creek, Colorado – Buckaroo Express – Agamatic
Beaver Creek, Colorado – Riverfront Gondola – Agamatic
Big Mountain, Montana – Big Mountain Express – Agamatic
Brighton, Utah – Millicent Express – Agamatic
Cypress Mountain, British Columbia – Lions Express – DT
Deer Valley, Utah – Lady Morgan Express – Agamatic
Heavenly, Nevada – Olympic Express – DT
Homewood, California – The Quad – Agamatic
Loon Mountain, New Hampshire – South Peak Express – DT
Mammoth Mountain, California – Cloud Nine Express – DT
Schweitzer, Idaho – Basin Express – Agamatic
Seven Springs, Pennsylvania – Gunnar Express – Agamatic
Squaw Valley, California – Shirley Lake Express – Agamatic
Sun Valley, Idaho – Quarter Dollar – DT
Sun Valley, Idaho – Half Dollar – DT
Texas State Fairgounds, Texas – Texas Skyway – DT
Timberline, Oregon – Still Creek Basin – Agamatic

[SkiBachelor]

One reason why some resorts prefer the DT grip over the Agamatic is because it's a lot easier to knock the rime off the grip.

[sseguin613]

Compared to Doppelmayr's other factories in north america, what is the one in St-Jerome Quebec responsible for? And what percentage of all lifts in North America come from there?