82 replies to this topic

[Ibot]

hi everyone, earth is now on!! make sure your particpatiing!!! i am, im in sydney the city that started all of this so jump on the bandwagon! make sure you sign up www.earthhour.org

cheers ben.

we all can help!

[Emax]

That site is pretty overloaded. Here's an alternate:

http://www.worldwild....org/earthhour/

[cjb]

I'll do my part by watching 'The great global warming swindle' with the lights down low.
Really everyone should watch it. I watched 'An inconvenient truth' and believe the global warming swindle to be much more believable.

[hyak.net]

cjb, on Mar 29 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

I'll do my part by watching 'The great global warming swindle' with the lights down low.
Really everyone should watch it. I watched 'An inconvenient truth' and believe the global warming swindle to be much more believable.

Very true....!!

[WBSKI]

I got quite a few people here in Vancouver, Canada participating. I realize the actual event probably saves very little power - coal power plants cannot simply turn off for an hour, they keep generating, even if no one uses the power. Still, it raises awareness for the environment, and encourages people to turn off the lights when they are not needed.

[Emax]

WBSKI, on Mar 30 2008, 09:52 PM, said:

I got quite a few people here in Vancouver, Canada participating. I realize the actual event probably saves very little power - coal power plants cannot simply turn off for an hour, they keep generating, even if no one uses the power. Still, it raises awareness for the environment, and encourages people to turn off the lights when they are not needed.

I did not turn off the lights - but only because I forgot.
Avoiding the waste of energy is sensible and constructive behavior - as are all types of behavior that minimize the trashing of the environment in which we must live. But I must agree with the presentation of the "Global Warming Swindle". Watch it with an open mind and then compare its content with what you've been told from the other side.

Make no mistake - this planet will get along just fine regardless of anything we do - it just might not be a habitable place for creatures like us.
But rather than get too excited about lofty issues like global warming, depletion of the ozone layer, altering the weather, etc., etc - why not get serious about the real problem behind all of this - the problem over which we have the most direct control: overpopulation. We've known about the population bomb since I was a young child - and all of the dire predictions I heard then have come to pass with mathematical precision. Any idiot with a calculator can figure out where this is headed.

Increasing the numbers of one's group has always been a dependable basic weapon against one's foes. Have a good look at which groups are increasing their numbers the fastest. The old racing adage" "If more is better, then too much is just enough" seems to apply.

What would you suggest as a reasonable remedy for this simple, obvious, dreadful problem?
Failing that, what unreasonable tactic might be implemented?
We simply must do something.

This post has been edited by Emax: 30 March 2008 - 08:28 PM

[k2skier]

An Inconvenient Truth was propaganda, so is the Great Global Warming Swindle.

Read up.

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pur...paganda_the.php
http://www.giss.nasa...iefs/hansen_05/
http://lwf.ncdc.noaa...balwarming.html
http://solar-center..../glob-warm.html
http://nsidc.org/news/press/2007_seaicemin...essrelease.html

These are not "greenie" sites predicting gloom, it's purely scientists showing their findings.
Anyone with any sense of reason knows the planet has been warming since the mini ice age, 1300's, and since the last great ice age, 6,000-7,000 years ago. The increasing temps of the planet is non-debatable, what is driving the rapid increase is what's debatable.

Do we continue to displace the carbon molecule (from under the ground to our atmosphere) to which in turn can cause climate forcings', or do we take the precautionary route which can do no harm except hurt large corporations bottom line?

Another good show to watch is the History Channel's "Crude", very interesting.

[WBSKI]

Emax, on Mar 30 2008, 08:25 PM, said:

I did not turn off the lights - but only because I forgot.
Avoiding the waste of energy is sensible and constructive behavior - as are all types of behavior that minimize the trashing of the environment in which we must live. But I must agree with the presentation of the "Global Warming Swindle". Watch it with an open mind and then compare its content with what you've been told from the other side.

Make no mistake - this planet will get along just fine regardless of anything we do - it just might not be a habitable place for creatures like us.
But rather than get too excited about lofty issues like global warming, depletion of the ozone layer, altering the weather, etc., etc - why not get serious about the real problem behind all of this - the problem over which we have the most direct control: overpopulation. We've known about the population bomb since I was a young child - and all of the dire predictions I heard then have come to pass with mathematical precision. Any idiot with a calculator can figure out where this is headed.

Increasing the numbers of one's group has always been a dependable basic weapon against one's foes. Have a good look at which groups are increasing their numbers the fastest. The old racing adage" "If more is better, then too much is just enough" seems to apply.

What would you suggest as a reasonable remedy for this simple, obvious, dreadful problem?
Failing that, what unreasonable tactic might be implemented?
We simply must do something.

I agree, it may not be so much about climate change as just our environment in general. Climate change is only one part of the puzzle, overpopulation will also lead to more famines ect ect. The thing that concerns me the most about the environment is that people are selfish, they want everyone else to make some sacrifices. As well, I have noticed that some people like to deny climate change just to free themselves of personal guilt of polluting. I definitely think the Europeans are taking the lead in this problem. Last summer, I went to Germany, there was many incentives for saving resources - subsidies, better public transport, ect. Finally, even if climate change isn't real, we must realize that are atmosphere is still not healthy, look at the smog in China, which kills hundreds of thousands a year. Look at the acid rain from SO2 which is destroying forests , farms and even structures.

So in the end, I agree with you, we must promote a behavior which limits the trashing of the environment.

[WBSKI]

I agree, both films are highly polarized, even though some might like to think otherwise.

The media has certainly hyped this, so our best route is to look at the actual scientist studies which are less biased at least.

As well, we really have to look at the majority of the scientists, there have been cases where several scientists were payed big money by oil companies to instill doubt. Its not a unbiased world, on either side.

k2skier, on Mar 31 2008, 10:48 AM, said:

An Inconvenient Truth was propaganda, so is the Great Global Warming Swindle.

Read up.

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pur...paganda_the.php
http://www.giss.nasa...iefs/hansen_05/
http://lwf.ncdc.noaa...balwarming.html
http://solar-center..../glob-warm.html
http://nsidc.org/news/press/2007_seaicemin...essrelease.html

These are not "greenie" sites predicting gloom, it's purely scientists showing their findings.
Anyone with any sense of reason knows the planet has been warming since the mini ice age, 1300's, and since the last great ice age, 6,000-7,000 years ago. The increasing temps of the planet is non-debatable, what is driving the rapid increase is what's debatable.

Do we continue to displace the carbon molecule (from under the ground to our atmosphere) to which in turn can cause climate forcings', or do we take the precautionary route which can do no harm except hurt large corporations bottom line?

Another good show to watch is the History Channel's "Crude", very interesting.

[WBSKI]

I just looked at the first part of the Global Warming Swindle, funny, I don't see many facts in there, just a heck of a lot of people saying their opinions. I agree, inconvenient truth is hyped, but so is this.

[liftmech]

Emax, on Mar 30 2008, 10:25 PM, said:

Make no mistake - this planet will get along just fine regardless of anything we do - it just might not be a habitable place for creatures like us.
But rather than get too excited about lofty issues like global warming, depletion of the ozone layer, altering the weather, etc., etc - why not get serious about the real problem behind all of this - the problem over which we have the most direct control: overpopulation. We've known about the population bomb since I was a young child - and all of the dire predictions I heard then have come to pass with mathematical precision. Any idiot with a calculator can figure out where this is headed.

Increasing the numbers of one's group has always been a dependable basic weapon against one's foes. Have a good look at which groups are increasing their numbers the fastest. The old racing adage" "If more is better, then too much is just enough" seems to apply.

What would you suggest as a reasonable remedy for this simple, obvious, dreadful problem?
Failing that, what unreasonable tactic might be implemented?
We simply must do something.

We in the developed world have the means to lower the birth rate. Birth control has been around for a while, and we've been fairly consistent in educating people about using it. I don't know the exact reasons, but Europe of late has been experiencing negative population growth. It seems that the main regions expanding the human population are poor and developing nations whose populations know next to nothing of birth control, or the pressures an expanding population places on resources.
China, as I'm sure most know, has had an official 'one child' policy in place for many years. A couple can only have one child; in the case of that child dying they may have another. Women who become pregnant after they already have a child are forced to have abortions. There's an example of draconian population control.
I think something a little less heavy-handed might be in order in the future- perhaps keeping the birth rate at a replacement ratio, i.e. two children for each couple. Enforcing that will likely be difficult- especially in Mormon or Catholic communities- but it may become necessary when our planet's population becomes larger than available resources can support. I can also can also imagine, in worst-case- scenarioland, forced sterilisation if all else fails.

[cjb]

"Do we continue to displace the carbon molecule (from under the ground to our atmosphere) to which in turn can cause climate forcings', or do we take the precautionary route which can do no harm except hurt large corporations bottom line?"

In the next year or two California resorts will be forced to spend tens of thousands to update the grooming fleets to new emissions standards, yeah it costs the "large corporations" bottom line, but it also costs those resorts employees, their customers, the snow cat manufacturers, the other vendors that will lose the money the resorts are now forced to spend elsewhere.

Global Warming Hysteria has huge costs associated with it. The Gov't is handing out hundreds of millions of tax $ for global warming research, Gov't mandates on fuel economy resulted in lighter and less safe cars, ethanol subsidies and quotas result in higher food prices and wheat/grain shortages, my wifes ashma inhaler costs $20 more per refill because the propellant is now outlawed in CA. and if you watch the complete global warming swindle movie you'll see the lives lost and illnesses caused because of the pressure put against Africa and other developing areas due to the GLOBAL WARMING agenda not allowing them to burn coal.


"Congress mandates auto fuel mileage standards -- Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE, standards -- resulting in lighter, less crashworthy cars. In 2002, the National Academy of Sciences calculated that CAFE standards caused 2,000 additional traffic deaths each year. In 1999, a USA Today analysis of government and Insurance Institute data found that since the 1970s CAFE standards went into effect, 46,000 people died in crashes which they would have likely survived had they been riding in heavier cars." Dr. Walter Williams column Aug 15, 2007


No Costs indeed.

[k2skier]

As far as population control and who's reproducing the fastest, I like Korn's video "Evolution". My fav parts are at 1:11 and 1:15, if you can tolerate the music, it's a hilarious video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L99UMoLvkrI

[Emax]

k2skier, on Mar 31 2008, 06:55 PM, said:

As far as population control and who's reproducing the fastest, I like Korn's video "Evolution". My fav parts are at 1:11 and 1:15, if you can tolerate the music, it's a hilarious video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L99UMoLvkrI

...return to Planet Of The Apes - and we're footing the bill.

[hyak.net]

As for the global temprature. The global temprature had been increasing from the mid 1800's to 1998, but has been going down since ( you will rarely hear this reported). There are those who say CO2 cause the earth to get warm and others who say the earth warming causes more CO2. There are no absolute facts to prove which is true, just pick a side and start screaming............

[k2skier]

hyak.net, on Mar 31 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

As for the global temprature. The global temprature had been increasing from the mid 1800's to 1998, but has been going down since ( you will rarely hear this reported). There are those who say CO2 cause the earth to get warm and others who say the earth warming causes more CO2. There are no absolute facts to prove which is true, just pick a side and start screaming............

Please post a link to your facts that show temp have decreased since 1998.

This post has been edited by k2skier: 01 April 2008 - 07:54 AM

[k2skier]

cjb, on Mar 31 2008, 05:53 PM, said:

"Do we continue to displace the carbon molecule (from under the ground to our atmosphere) to which in turn can cause climate forcings', or do we take the precautionary route which can do no harm except hurt large corporations bottom line?"

In the next year or two California resorts will be forced to spend tens of thousands to update the grooming fleets to new emissions standards, yeah it costs the "large corporations" bottom line, but it also costs those resorts employees, their customers, the snow cat manufacturers, the other vendors that will lose the money the resorts are now forced to spend elsewhere.

Global Warming Hysteria has huge costs associated with it. The Gov't is handing out hundreds of millions of tax $ for global warming research, Gov't mandates on fuel economy resulted in lighter and less safe cars, ethanol subsidies and quotas result in higher food prices and wheat/grain shortages, my wifes ashma inhaler costs $20 more per refill because the propellant is now outlawed in CA. and if you watch the complete global warming swindle movie you'll see the lives lost and illnesses caused because of the pressure put against Africa and other developing areas due to the GLOBAL WARMING agenda not allowing them to burn coal.


"Congress mandates auto fuel mileage standards -- Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE, standards -- resulting in lighter, less crashworthy cars. In 2002, the National Academy of Sciences calculated that CAFE standards caused 2,000 additional traffic deaths each year. In 1999, a USA Today analysis of government and Insurance Institute data found that since the 1970s CAFE standards went into effect, 46,000 people died in crashes which they would have likely survived had they been riding in heavier cars." Dr. Walter Williams column Aug 15, 2007


No Costs indeed.

WOW!


Your signature says it all.

[hyak.net]

k2skier, on Apr 1 2008, 08:51 AM, said:

Please post a link to your facts that show temp have decreased since 1998.

I don't claim to be a weather expert, I just read the news and have my own opinions. These are just a few
links that make reference to the cooling trend since 1998.

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/...s-time-hadcrut/

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...99-7583,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...09/ixworld.html

http://www.freerepub...s/1658580/posts

[k2skier]

And it contradicts all the "REAL" science. My links aren't blogs or one persons opinion, they are scientists showing their data and drawing a conclusion from the facts. NASA, NSIDC and NOAA aren't tree hugging' liberals, they're just telling us what's going on. The rapid retreat of Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets/glaciers should concern us all if we have an open mind. A closed mind will lead to the same conclusion every time. There is an overwhelming majority of scientists that agree we have increased global mean temps much more rapidly recently. You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution. But ignoring the facts and trying to disprove the planet is heating up is bad for all of us. We have one planet and one chance to do the right thing.

http://data.giss.nas...v/gistemp/2005/

This one shows the "cooling chart with a line through it and it does increase over the long term. Five even ten years doesn't make a trend, you have to compare more data over a longer period to get a trend.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-war...ped-in-1998.htm

I too draw my own conclusions from looking at both sides. I have seen the warming first hand, at Mt Hood Skibowl, the number of days it rains now at 4,000 feet in the Cascades has increased dramatically.

This topic should be a big concern for all of those in the ski/snow industry, just look at the decrease in snow pack in the Alps.

[cjb]

k2skier, on Apr 1 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

WOW!


Your signature says it all.

The signature is a sarcastic response to another member saying 'all snowboarders are dirtbag druggies that don't care about anything'

So how about responding to the statement that there is 'no cost' to fighting global warming (a futile fight against a natural phenomenom, we might as well try to stop the sun from setting) other than large corporations bottom line.