92 replies to this topic

[liftmech]

Um, snowmaking is water...

[Lift Dinosaur]

Personally, I think the two NASA 747s which fly the space shuttle back to Florida after it lands in Houston should be converted to this fire fighthing setup. These planes are hardly used these days, although I guess they have been reinforced quite a bit inside to handle the weight of the shuttle. The US government also has four other 747s that are hardly used anymore that can be modified to this setup.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, all aircraft resources that are under contract with the NIFC are Civilian (Private Companies), not Military or Government.
The other logistical problems with the 747 is 1) Where can you land it (and take off with a 24,000 gal payload)? and 2) What's it going to take, resource wise, to fill it with 24,000 gallons of water or retardant?
While it would be nice to see one workout on a fire, the costs involved are prohibitive - thusly Evergreen is hauling cargo out of the Mid-East.

Dino

[Limelight]

Compuboks, on Aug 23 2007, 05:55 AM, said:

Not entirely accurate. The system has been fully charged since Monday, and we've been experimenting with creating defense lines along Seattle ridge and Warm Springs face. We'll also be prepping Cozy and the rest of Greyhawk country in the next few days.

Our testing on Warm Springs face and Seattle ridge has been very encouraging. We think we can saturate enough grass to setup a fairly effective defense line behind Seattle Ridge lodge (combined with conventional firefighting techniques), and we are also experimenting with wetting down portions of lift 10 (Challenger), as well as 12 (Seattle Ridge).

We're already supplying water to the heavy helicopters working the Red Warrior Creek hot spots with water from our domestic water system via 6,000 gallon "pumpkins" that have been placed in the Broadway Saddle.

Very glad to hear that!!! Can you adjust the fixed nozzles to aim into the tree line, or in any direction for that matter? Do you have remote hoses staged near the lift lines and lodges? I noticed some hoses staged near the towers of Challenger to other day.

This post has been edited by Limelight: 23 August 2007 - 08:40 AM

[Limelight]

Skier, on Aug 22 2007, 10:44 PM, said:

So are you in the voluntary evacuation area or in the Ketchum city limits with no order yet?

I'm just outside of the manditory evacuation area. So I guess we're in the voluntary area right now due to heavy smoke. They have however closed all of Warm Springs road to non residence. They've got a road block set up where they take down your address, number and check ID.

[Compuboks]

Limelight, on Aug 23 2007, 08:20 AM, said:

Can you adjust the fixed nozzles to aim into the tree line, or in any direction for that matter?

Yes. We can move every auto gun 360 (by hand) to point wherever we want.

Limelight, on Aug 23 2007, 08:20 AM, said:

Do you have remote hoses staged near the lift lines and lodges? I noticed some hoses staged near the towers of Challenger to other day.

Yes. We have hose staged at every major structure on the mountain. Additionally, we've brought in a fire team from one of the Sinclair refineries to coordinate our structure protection program. We've also been building up Cam lock to Fire thread fittings so Forest Service fire crews can hook hand lines directly to our manual snowmaking hydrants spread throughout the mountain.

[Snoqualmie guy]

The B-52 would have plenty of space for whatever they pour on those fires. Though they would be gas hogs.

[SkiBachelor]

For those interested, here is the Evergreen 747 supertanker promotional video. From the video, the pilots are skilled enough to fly through mountainous terrain.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KvBRWTumoZI

[Limelight]

Compuboks, on Aug 23 2007, 04:12 PM, said:

Yes. We can move every auto gun 360 (by hand) to point wherever we want.



Yes. We have hose staged at every major structure on the mountain. Additionally, we've brought in a fire team from one of the Sinclair refineries to coordinate our structure protection program. We've also been building up Cam lock to Fire thread fittings so Forest Service fire crews can hook hand lines directly to our manual snowmaking hydrants spread throughout the mountain.

Thanks for your hard work. Needless to say, if Baldy goes, our home will go with it. So thanks again...

[JustJeepIt]

Was reading the latest news out there in Sun Valley, one word: OYE

[Limelight]

The fire is approaching the back side of Baldy. They've begun turning on the snowmaking. The mid valley is under a mandatory evacuation. Its now over 35,000 acres, 1400 firefighters, 100 engines, and 5 helicopters.


OK..........what is "OYE"??????

This post has been edited by Limelight: 26 August 2007 - 12:25 PM

[lastchair_44]

Back on top. Limelight, what does it look like for Sun Valley's Bald Mtn.??? Has anyone said the odds of the mountain burning? Does it appear that they'll be able to save it? Good luck to you all! We'll be thinking of you.

[Peter]

From the press releases, it sounds like they have some of those 1400 firefighters on Baldy becoming familiar with the structures, where the hydrants are, etc. It did not sound like it was in imminent danger, but they called it "a fluid situation."

[Peter]

Here is an updated fire map. Right now there are 30-40 mph winds on top, so they are very worried about spot fires.

2pm update: "The Forest Service reiterated at 2 p.m. that Bald Mountain is not on fire. However, at 2:15 p.m. radio reports indicated that firefighters had spotted flames on top of Timber Gulch, located just south of Baldy, west of Highway 75, near St. Luke's Wood River Medical Center. Crews and several engines are moving into that area.

Reports indicate that snowmaking guns on top of Baldy had been turned on to reduce the risk of fire starting on the ski mountain. "

Older info:
8/22:
Q: How worried is the incident commander about fire spreading to Bald Mountain?
A: Said Pincha-Tulley, “I’m worried about everything right now, to tell the truth.” She said crews have a good shot at beating the fire, but “it’s a race.”
Q: Can snowmaking equipment on Bald Mountain be used to reduce the threat there?
A: The snowmaking system is charged with water, but early tests showed the snow gun nozzles were too hot to work. Workers are trying to figure out how to make them operate better so they can be used for fire defense.

8/24: Q: How will Ketchum residents get notice if a fire breaks out on Baldy?
A: A strike team has been set up to protect Baldy. There are fire crews on top of Baldy. Dip tanks and retardant have been located there for helicopters. If fire strikes Baldy, the community will be notified immediately.

Attached File(s)

•  phpThumb.jpg (293.82K)
  Number of downloads: 27

This post has been edited by Skier: 26 August 2007 - 03:47 PM

[Peter]

A posting on the Idaho Mountain Express website says that Bald Mountain is now threatened, and they will post a more detailed article shortly.

[defence2]

I really appreciate all the updates, my family owns property in elkhorn and is hoping for the best.

[Peter]

Evening, 7pm Update - High winds and dry conditions calling for a Red Flag warning have caused the fire to push over Bald Mountain. Firefighters were on the mountain. Due to their actions the fire made multiple passes around Seattle Lodge, which remains intact. The chair lift, also intact, had been started to minimize any damage that might have occurred from the fire.

There's also been no damage to the communications site.

The top of College Ski Run has re-programmed snow- making equipment that is being used as a water delivery system. The mist from the system is visible from town.

[EagleAce]

my best wishes to all affected by these fires

[Peter]

10:24 PM:

Bald Mountain on fire


Castle Rock blaze moving toward Sun Valley ski runs

By :TREVOR SCHUBERT


Castle Rock Fire crews were preparing for a defense of Bald Mountain Sunday evening as fire fingers leaped out of Timber Gulch on the south side and up Bassett Gulch on the west side, marching toward Seattle Ridge. Fire crews will continue with night operations to fight both blazes that are threatening the mountain.

At 9 p.m. firefighters reported seeing flames erupting from the south side of Bald Mountain.

The blaze grew Sunday to 41,100 acres and was being fought by 1,630 firefighters. The containment level dropped Sunday from 38 percent to 31 percent.

At roughly 6:30 p.m., flames jumped from the Clear Creek area, south of Ketchum near Wood River Medical Center, over a ridge and into the Cold Springs drainage next to Baldy. The "spot" fire grew, filling the Cold Springs basin. At 8 p.m. Sunday, the ski lift that runs from Cold Springs up onto Baldy beside the Roundhouse restaurant was threatened.

"In the morning we had over 40 firefighters on top of Bald Mountain," said Jim Whittington, fire information officer. "Since that time we have added more crews. They are in very defensible positions and have all the equipment and resources needed to battle this."

Fire officials said helicopters would continue to lay a fire retardant line along the ridgelines of Baldy as long as light and smoke conditions permitted.

The flames creeping up Bassett Gulch onto the back side of Baldy by 8 p.m. had reportedly crested the fence line at the top of the ski-area bowls directly below the Bald Mountain summit.

Whittington said Sun Valley Co. was able to "trick their snow guns" into thinking the weather was colder than it is in order to get water flow from them at full capacity. The units were being used Sunday to wet down areas on top of the ski mountain.

At roughly 8 p.m., fire reportedly made its way over Broadway Saddle and toward the $12 million Seattle Ridge Lodge. At 10 p.m., observers said "torching" flames on the Seattle Ridge area of Baldy were visible from the mid-valley.

Concerns were raised Sunday about the communications equipment for several Wood River Valley emergency-response departments that is housed on Seattle Ridge.

Whittington said once the fire reached the slopes of Baldy, the wind and gradient would be in favor of the fire-fighting effort. That combined with the ski runs cut into the forest would create firebreaks, providing fire crews a fighting chance, even in the dark. On Monday a full-scale aerial assault is anticipated.

Greenhorn Gulch, near the middle Wood River Valley, saw the majority of action during Sunday afternoon, with fire crews actively protecting homes with support from heavy helicopters and air tankers, said Debby Broback, fire information officer.

"There was fire in the immediate vicinity of homes," Broback said. "As of 4:15 (p.m.) no homes in the area were lost."

Fire officials confirmed at 10 p.m. that no structures had been lost as a result of the fire.

Broback said throughout the day heavy helicopters had worked to lay fire retardant lines throughout the Greenhorn Gulch area.

"The question is will the fire get below (south) Greenhorn and when," Whittington said at around 2:30 p.m. Sunday. "If it jumps the road at 7 tonight, we should be able to knock it down. If it jumps in the next half-hour or hour, we could be looking at a worst-case scenario."

Whittington described a worst-case scenario as one where fire crews are forced to move out of the Greenhorn area and resume fire-fighting activities on the east side of Highway 75.

Potential outcomes rest on the weather and the wind factor in particular. Strong winds, gusting in the 25- to 30-mile-per-hour range Sunday, largely subsided by 6 p.m. The incident fire report predicts winds on Monday will fall to the 10- to 15-mile-per-hour range, coming out of the southwest to west in the morning. Monday evening could see gusts out of the west to northwest up to 20 mph. Relative humidity is on the rise in the next few days and Wednesday could bring wet thunderstorms, which ultimately could help or hinder the effort.

The north flank of the fire saw a "blossom" of fire on Fox Peak Saturday. However, as of Sunday night the fire line along the ridge of Fox Creek reportedly held. Sunday's fire behavior report said, "Spot fires should be easy to catch if found early. ... The fire in the northwest corner of the area does have the potential to become established and make runs with long-range spotting north of Fox Creek."

Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter returned to the Wood River Valley in an unscheduled stop following a call from state Sen. Clint Stennett that the situation had deteriorated since Otter's departure on Saturday. Gov. Otter cut short a trip to Fort Sill, Okla., where he was seeing off a Blackhawk helicopter group headed for Iraq.

Gov. Otter, Sen. Stennett and U.S. Sen. Larry Craig received an update at River Run Lodge from fire incident commanders, following which Gov. Otter said, "The fire is worse. But every time I come back I'm more confident." Gov. Otter said he, Sen. Craig and Sen. Stennett were "here to let residents know they have support at the state and federal levels."

Sen. Craig went on to say the remainder of Sunday afternoon is going to be "tough times."

Mandatory evacuations remain in place for residents from Ohio Gulch north to St. Luke's Wood River Medical Center and for Warm Springs west of Ketchum city limits.

St. Luke's has discharged all patients, and although the hospital is on lockdown, the emergency room is open and medical staff is on hand to assist on a patient-by-patient basis. Fire crews have personnel posted at the hospital for structural protection and the oxygen tanks located outside the facility have received fire retardant foam.

The blaze started on Aug. 16. It was emboldened over the weekend by strong winds, low humidity and extremely dry fuels.

[defence2]

Sounds bad. Lets hope that the mountain makes it through ok.

[SkiBachelor]

I watched segments of CNN Headline and Fox News and neither of these stations had news briefs about this fire. It was all focused on the Utah mine rescue, New Orleans aftermath and illegal immigration.

Does anyone know why this is, because you usually hear about these big fires on the news all the time.