507 replies to this topic

[Peter]

"The Elk Camp beginners area: The new gondola provides a way to get novice skiers up the mountain without taking them on terrain they can't tackle. The gondola unloads at the base of the Elk Camp area, providing easy access to a new beginners park.

U.S. Forest Service approvals allow the Skico to remove trees on an 8.5-acre area on the lower Turkey Trot trail for the beginners area. A quad chairlift will serve the area."

[alexboesen]

More Details on Upcoming Northstar Lifts

Arrow-Comstock Replacement - http://www.placer.ca.gov/upload/cdr/ecs/ne...omstocklift.pdf

S Pod Lift On The Backside - http://www.placer.ca.gov/upload/cdr/ecs/ne...nstarskipod.pdf

[afski722]

SkiBachelor, on Mar 20 2007, 12:13 PM, said:

From today's Aspen Time's newspaper, it appears that plans for the new Elk Camp beginner lift at Snowmass are on hold since it was not listed as being a project this summer. There were also plans to replace Sheer Bliss with a HSS this summer too, but that's on hold until a later date.

http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20070319...044/0/FRONTPAGE

Until I went and read the article, I was thinking, "Whoa, replacing the Sheer Bliss lift with a HSS would possibly be the greatest lift over-kill since McConkey's at PCMR."

After reading I see that they were considering a single lift replacement of a HSS to replace both the Big Burn HSQ and the Sheer Bliss FGD all in one shot. That makes a lot more sense, however, I think its probably better to leave things as-is, as sometimes the HSS's are more trouble than their worth. It would preserve the ski experience better with a HSQ and a fixed-grip both in their current alignments. Sometimes faster isn't always better.

[egieszl]

afski722, on Mar 20 2007, 08:58 PM, said:

After reading I see that they were considering a single lift replacement of a HSS to replace both the Big Burn HSQ and the Sheer Bliss FGD all in one shot. That makes a lot more sense, however, I think its probably better to leave things as-is, as sometimes the HSS's are more trouble than their worth. It would preserve the ski experience better with a HSQ and a fixed-grip both in their current alignments. Sometimes faster isn't always better.

The ski patrol apparently did not like the new alignment since the line would've gone right up the advanced Garrett's Gulch. Since The Burn is primarily intermediate terrrain they were concerned about evacuating into an advanced area that also has the potential for slides. Garrett's Gulch is presently closed due to avalanche concerns from the warm weather.

The Village Express 6-pack is a nightmare lift in my opinion. They badly need the conveyor belt loading. The gates open and people just don't understand that you need to proceed to the red line for loading. It's a painfully slow because of the slow downs and stops from loading and unloading problems. Also, from my experience they seem to run it at less than full speed.

The best scenario is to replace or rebuild The Burn HSQ and replace Sheer Blisss with either a HSD or a reduced capacity HSQ (1200 - 1800 pph). If it must be a fixed grip lift then I'd rather keep the Riplet. They replaced the Campground lift with a new Poma FGD and it is painfully slow. I also don't understand why they run it so slow since it no longer is a center pole and the carriers are spaced farther apart than the old Riplet lift. If the public can't ride this lift at full-speed then they should just have their lift priviledges revoked or be banned to the detachables.

This post has been edited by egieszl: 20 March 2007 - 10:41 PM

[liftmech]

The Village Express 6-pack is a nightmare lift in my opinion. They badly need the conveyor belt loading. The gates open and people just don't understand that you need to proceed to the red line for loading.Having worked on lifts with both gates and conveyor systems, I think that it's the gates that cause most of the public's problems. None of the systems I've seen have a large enough opening window and people don't move that fast. The gates generally open for two seconds rather than the standard six-second chair interval. It's a painfully slow because of the slow downs and stops from loading and unloading problems. Also, from my experience they seem to run it at less than full speed. They probably have a full-capacity lift with six second loading at full speed. Since people have problems loading/unloading, they've slowed the lift down to create a longer interval. I don't understand why beginner lifts are designed this way (I'm assuming the Village is a beginner lift since it replace Fanny Hill). The longer people have to get to the load board, the easier it is for them and the less the lifties have to slow and stop the lift. Effective capacity with eight-second loading at full speed is the same as slowing the lift down to achieve eight-second loading, so one may as well remove carriers and run the lift at full speed. $.02

The best scenario is to replace or rebuild The Burn HSQ and replace Sheer Blisss with either a HSD or a reduced capacity HSQ (1200 - 1800 pph). If it must be a fixed grip lift then I'd rather keep the Riplet. They replaced the Campground lift with a new Poma FGD and it is painfully slow. I also don't understand why they run it so slow since it no longer is a center pole and the carriers are spaced farther apart than the old Riplet lift. If the public can't ride this lift at full-speed then they should just have their lift priviledges revoked or be banned to the detachables.
I thought the Campground lift was slow as well. It may have just felt that way since the lift was so long. I don't think it has anything to do with people who can't load since it serves only advanced-expert terrain.

[boardski]

I agree that a HSS to replace Bliss/Burn is a bad idea. I like it the way it is also. If Bliss is too slow for people, it is easy just to drop down to Coney Glade and ride Glade+Burn to make it to the top of Bliss and have high speed lift ride with some skiing in between. It keeps the feet from falling asleep. If any improvement is made to this area, my vote would be for the lower capacity HSQ replacing Bliss and keeping Burn as is. I was there on a very busy powder day last February and the longest lines appeared to be at Alpine Springs. It seems they may want to reconsider removing Naked Lady (FGT which was NOT running that day) and have it open on busy days. I think a FGD or FGT running as a back up to a HSQ is a better set up than a HSS any day and much more efficient.

People just cannot load HSS for some reason. All of the HSS s I have ridden on in Colorado stop and slow all the time and take more time to get to the top than it would take to ride a 30 year old fixed-grip chair. The only HSS which seems to run efficently is the Super B at Copper. (The only HSS which is forward-loading). Misloads in general also seem to be on the rise. It has been a very annoying issue this season, especially on lifts which serve only intermediate and advanced terrain. I can't understand why people cannot pay better attention to what they are doing and have a little more consideration for others. Constant misloads causing lifts to stop and slow constantly cause massive lines at the bottom! Definately a good quality improvement project for many ski areas.

[Peter]

I don't know why, but the high speed sixes at Crystal Mountain seem to have very few misloads. They have loading gates, but nothing is really unique about them. There are plenty of beginners that seem to load fine. Forest Queen Express has 6 second chair intervals and an hourly of capacity of 3600 which is nearly realized on busy days.

[SkiBachelor]

Although the beginners that ski at Crystal ski more frequently than the 4 time a year skier at major destination resorts.

[boardski]

Skier, on Mar 21 2007, 08:06 PM, said:

I don't know why, but the high speed sixes at Crystal Mountain seem to have very few misloads. They have loading gates, but nothing is really unique about them. There are plenty of beginners that seem to load fine. Forest Queen Express has 6 second chair intervals and an hourly of capacity of 3600 which is nearly realized on busy days.

Does the Forest Queen have forward-facing loading or the 90 degree loading?

[SkiBachelor]

It's forward loading.

[afski722]

Boardski,

I agree with you 100%. The HSS just don't seem to work the way they were intended at a lot of these places. Part of it is the side load, part of it is the gates, part of it is the unloading area, and part of it throwing a bunch of random people together on a chair. Colorado has more issues than other places just because of the caliber of skiers.

A HSS as a single lift replacement on Burn/Bliss is a bad idea. I didn't realize they were looking at running it up the Gultch - what a stupid idea that is for so many reasons. Environmentally, from a safety perspective, and ruining a somewhat decent expert stash on the mountain. I for one have no problem riding fixed grips as it helps to mellow out the pace and can allow for better conversations, plus can usually be faster that High-speeds since the crowds will avoid them. Skico is wise at re-evaluating this idea. I think they have bigger problems in figuring out what to with the Alpine Springs and Elk Camp areas first before changing things up on the Burn.

[skierdude9450]

Skier, on Mar 21 2007, 08:06 PM, said:

I don't know why, but the high speed sixes at Crystal Mountain seem to have very few misloads. They have loading gates, but nothing is really unique about them. There are plenty of beginners that seem to load fine. Forest Queen Express has 6 second chair intervals and an hourly of capacity of 3600 which is nearly realized on busy days.

Exactly SkiBachelor's point. The people that ski at Crystal are much more competent at riding the lifts than around here. At Breck, they get double time to get on the chair and they still can't, but also so many people fall down getting off of the chair that you could have a blooper reel in 10 minutes of filming.

I noticed looking through the gallery that Squaw's sixes don't have loading gates. If anyone is from Squaw, or has been there, does this help?

As boardski said, Super Bee never has a problem. I think it might have slightly reduced capacity. (yes, no?) Ruby at Keystone is hassle free except at the end of the day when it actually gets used and people can't figure out that six people can fit on the chair, and also when they load the wounded onto the two stretcher chairs. I'll have to get a picture of that.

I'm not sure how much 90 degree loading affects the effeciency of the lift, but you don't have as far to get to the "load here" board. That can be good and bad. But why are so many lifts these days especially L-Ps made with 90 degree loading? Overall, everywhere needs lift-ops like Copper's that can form sixes and keep reminding people to move out to the chair.

Anyway, now that we're so , can we move this discussion into a new topic?

[boardski]

Back to the original topic, are any of the Aspen ski areas getting new lifts this Summer?

[Peter]

I think Snowmass is still getting the beginner high speed quad for the top of Elk Camp.

[SkiBachelor]

Bridger Bowl is holding off until the summer of 2008 to install its double.

However, there is a zoo in Indiana that's installing a chairlift.

[egieszl]

Mammoth Mountain has officially announced the replacement of Chair 9 with a high-speed six-pack for 2007/2008. I assume it will be a Dopplemayr/CTEC project.

The mountain also mentioned in a letter to passholders that they will upgrade Chair 5 to a high-speed quad and extend the Village Gondola at a later date. So the Chair 5 project that is listed in this thread is on hold.

[vons]

From what I have heard L-P has 14 projects next summer . I can think of Four lifts in Colorado, @ WP, A-basin, and Vail. I have also heard that L-P USA is building a new plant in Grand Junction that will be much larger and shaired with Prinoth

Whats the count now?

[afski722]

I have confirmation of another lift replacement for Summer 2007 per their press release:

Seven Springs - Pennsylvania

Replacing Chair 10 / Gunnar Slope CTEC Fixed-Grip Triple with a High-Speed 6-Pack for the 2007/2008 season.

No mention of mfg, but their existing 6-pack is a CTEC Garaventa, and they have been a loyal CTEC customer for years, which would assume that this lift will be a Doppelmayr CTEC lift.

[Lift Kid]

vons, on Apr 1 2007, 08:36 PM, said:

From what I have heard L-P has 14 projects next summer . I can think of Four lifts in Colorado, @ WP, A-basin, and Vail. I have also heard that L-P USA is building a new plant in Grand Junction that will be much larger and shaired with Prinoth

Whats the count now?

So Vail decided to go with L-P for the new detach. But are they using L-P for lift 14 replacement too?

[vons]

10 and 14 will be L-P it is very uncommon to have lifts built buy different compnies the same year at the same resort.