23 replies to this topic

[RideBurton]

I was just wondering about something that I have noticed ever since I could remember about Excelerator's Top Terminal. The thing is that when the chairs enter the top terminal it's almost like the chairs don't slow down until they makes the turn around the terminal. I was just wondering why this is. Does it have something to do with the way you load at the bottom terminal? I know the loading is alittle different at the bottom terminal since you load at a 90 degree angle instead of like most other HS chairs where the loading takes place facing up the line. Or the other possibility I thought could be that the unloading point where your supposed to unload is to close to where the chair enters the terminal and the chair is not fully detached off of the cable yet. I've just been wondering this for the past couple of years.

This post has been edited by RideBurton: 23 July 2006 - 11:46 AM

[skier2]

Yeah, I've noticed that too- It's almost like you get thrown off the chair. I wonder what it is? Maybe the terminals are shorter or something.

This post has been edited by skier2: 23 July 2006 - 12:11 PM

[vons]

E has standard lenght terminals its just it is run a 1100fpm. The poma terminals are short to begin with, the chair comes to its slowest speed just at the ramp breakover which is very clos to the contor the overall unload speed is also higher I belive, John might know more.

[liftmech]

Vons is correct- the accel/decel ratios are set to where the only constant speed is in the contour. The chairs are either accelerating or decelerating when they are in the straight sections. This produces that slingshot effect you guys are referring to, since the unload ramp is built before the chair has slowed down all the way. By way of contrast, B-lift has a few tyres at the end of the straight (decel) section that are running at the same speed as the contour, so the unload is a little smoother and you're not flung off the chair.

[Peter]

I kind of like being flung off the chair. Some of the high speed lifts at Alta were like that and it is nice.

[spunkyskier01]

i gotta say i like to be flung from the lifts too

[Jonni]

We have that set up on our HSQ here at Sunapee, and I think it's a much better setup than the standard terminal speed unload. From an operation's point of view it pushes skiers out of the way further getting people out of the way. It also gives people a little more time for error rather than just having the chair unload and immediately turn in the contour. Unfortunately the higher-ups in our maintenance department want to change this. Despite not really having much say in the decision to change the way the lift loads and unloads I really think that there will be more mis-unloads and mis-loads, especially since people's feet/skis will touch the ground before they are supposed to unload. In most cases this wouldn't really matter, but in this case your feet would be sliding on the snow for almost 12 feet before you were able to unload.

[poloxskier]

Jonni, on Jul 24 2006, 03:39 AM, said:

We have that set up on our HSQ here at Sunapee, and I think it's a much better setup than the standard terminal speed unload. From an operation's point of view it pushes skiers out of the way further getting people out of the way. It also gives people a little more time for error rather than just having the chair unload and immediately turn in the contour. Unfortunately the higher-ups in our maintenance department want to change this. Despite not really having much say in the decision to change the way the lift loads and unloads I really think that there will be more mis-unloads and mis-loads, especially since people's feet/skis will touch the ground before they are supposed to unload. In most cases this wouldn't really matter, but in this case your feet would be sliding on the snow for almost 12 feet before you were able to unload.

That sounds similar to what summit ex at Keystone does. Your skis are on the snow a long time before you are actualy pushed down the ramp on the unload. It seems to confuse people since they think that they are suposed to unload as soon as their skis hit the snow.

[Aussierob]

Harmony at Whistler had the same slingshot setup which was great if you knew how to ski. Unfortunately it was a problem fo a lot of guests so we repulleyed it to slow it down at the unload.

[Peter]

Chinook and Forest Queen at Crystal have very very long flat sections before the ramp. It is probably around 12-14 feet of flat. The chairs are slowed completely at the beginning, and you can either get up right away and push off, or sit and wait till the ramp. It actually works pretty well on the six packs because some people hop off the chair right away and get out of the way, while others get off later. This helps to not have six people unloading at exactly the same time. The really long terminals allow for the long straight slow section before and after the turnaround.

[vons]

T-rex at copper the chair slowed down about 3 feet from the contour but the ramp was never graded steep enough so people often have trouble getting clear of the chair to fix this problem we would run the lift at 5.0mps vs. the lift top speed 5.5mps it lunches ya at the faster speed but most inexperienced skiers can't handle it. John any way to lift the terminal about 18"

This post has been edited by vons: 24 July 2006 - 11:06 AM

[RideBurton]

Alright, well I just learned a lot. I like the "sling shot" effect off of chairs also. One thing that I don't like is on Super Bee and Timberline, its almost like you have to push yourself off the chair. I think this relates back vons comment about the unloading area not be graded steep enough. I have another question for ya. Do you ever slow down the chair speed in the terminals during high seasons such as Christmas or Spring Break since of all the out-of-state people who are not as experienced getting off of the lifts?

[vons]

We used to slow the lifts. On 0-1(American Flyer) it was not uncommon to run the lift at 980-990 vs. 1000fpm during peak times. The marginal loss of capacity is less than the loss of capacity would be due to the number of stops we would have if we did not slow the lift. Slowing the chair more than normal in the terminals is not practical since the accel deccel assemblies rely on pulley ratios to slow and speed up a chair. This is why two identical lift terminals can have different load qualities like longer sections at low speed, faster acceleration, etc. All these qualities can be accomplished by changing the pulley configurations but this also makes it impractical to tri to make it adjustable. Though I will say that with unlimited budget and lots of clutches someone could possibly make an unload speed adjustable terminal, but why?

[skier14]

Sun Valley will actually speed up lifts in the morning on big ski days. We speed up the lifts that go to the top of the mt to 890fpm (we usually run at 800 or 790 to keep wear and tear down). Its so we can keep lines small during the morning rush (8-10AM). Speeding up the lifts hasnt been a problem since most other resorts have faster lifts so 890fpm hasnt been an issue. And having the terminals slow down for loading and unloading isnt pratical like vons has mentioned

[RideBurton]

Ok. I didn't know if you could slow down the chair speed in the terminal but keep the lift the same speed. Thanks for the answers though!

[Jonni]

We usually keep the speed of the lift at around 950 fpm (designed for 1100). If it were a perfect world I would think it would be best to run the lift during the week and slow times at the full 1100 fpm and turn it down to 950 or 900 on the weekends/holidays. So that the times when it will have less wear and tear from slows and stops it will run at it's designed speed, but slow it down for the holiday crowds to minimize the amount of mis-loads and unloads.

[Lift Kid]

I actually kinda like being thrown off of the chair. It means you don't have to push away from the chair. Beaver run kind of does that but it really takes and instant slow down when you get off. The chair is already pretty slow at the point but then slows down more. Also, Mercury accelerates the second after you sit down.

[DonaldMReif]

Some resorts I've been at have a mix of slingshot and slow unloads:

1. All five of Steamboat's high speed quads are equipped with the slingshot unload (from personal experience).

2. At Winter Park, the Zephyr Express, Gemini Express, Eskimo Express, Prospector Express, Olympia Express, and High Lonesome Express lifts have slingshot unloading and slingshot loading (the chair speeds up the moment you sit down). The Pioneer Express lift's chairs slow to terminal speed before unloading because they have to attach to a chain to turn around, as opposed to tires on the other lifts. The six packs, I think, use regular unloading.

3. At Breckenridge, the Falcon SuperChair is equipped with slingshot unloading. The reason why is pretty obvious: the lift has an Alpha Falcon drive terminal. As a result, there is a fixed grip terminal with the drive machinery and bullwheel behind the detachable terminal. The area under the drive is very flat, so some extra speed is given to move people out of the unloading area quicker.

4. Vail is another mix of the slingshots and slow unloading.
4A. On the three Garaventa CTEC high speed quads (Pride Express, Wildwood Express, and Riva Bahn Express), the chairs slow down completely, and then move at terminal speed for about 10 feet before reaching the ramp, so people have time to get ready.

4B. On the seven Doppelmayr high speed quads (Avanti Express, Born Free Express, Game Creek Express, Mountaintop Express, Northwoods Express, Orient Express, and Vista Bahn Express), there are long segments before the unloading ramp, though this is natural to assume: as soon as the chairs slow down, they travel at a slow pace so that they can enter the chain.

4C. The seven Poma built high speed quads (Earl's Express, High Noon Express, Highline Express, Pete's Express, Skyline Express, Sourdough Express, and Teacup Express) are a different story. The Earl's Express, High Noon Express, Sourdough Express, and Teacup Express lifts have slingshot unloading. The Skyline Express lift seems to have its chairs slow down before the ramp, as does the Pete's Express lift (which sort of crosses between regular and slingshot unloading). The Highline Express lift, I haven't been on, so I couldn't tell you that.

[liftmech]

Something to consider when discussing all this-- as far as I know, the 'slingshot' unload is not something you order. It happens due to either the length of the terminal or the speed of the contour. Older lifts (with a few exceptions) tended to slow their carriers down more gradually, and their contours were either slow or incredibly slow. Newer lifts don't always hold to that design perspective.

[floridaskier]

Doesn't it have more to do with where the resort builds the unload ramp? The Sun Valley Yan retrofits have very short terminals (with the upward-sloping deceleration sections) but the ramps are so far back that you go slow for a few seconds before unloading.

I'd much rather be thrown off the chair at the end. It's nice to have a second to after loading before speeding up in case someone didn't get on the chair right