Skilifts.org / SORT Forum

Viking and Crown Point? They are the newest so I would think it would be them.

Glacier express at Lake Louise can run full speed in reverse.

highspeedquad, on Mar 8 2005, 07:06 PM, said:

We can run Silverlode/Motherlode in reverse. When we take the chairs offline the rows start at 1 and say go to 20, then 21 to 40, 41 to 60 etc. with #1 being the front chair on the bottom of the long pile. So when we get to the last chairs in the last pile (say numbers 89, 90, 91) #91 will be on top at the far end of the pile, with 90 underneath, etc. You hang 91 online, then run the chair backwards, put 90, then 89... and so on until you get to #1. Otherwise you have to flip all the chairs over to start @ #1.

Oh, that makes sense, I was assuming that you stored all of your carriers on a rail, but obviously that's not the case. That would make more sense. What would happen if you did Poma's, just what you said, Allen? I guess you could also specifically order a large enough rail to store the carriers, then that would work.

Fixed grips don't have rails - which is what I meant by piling chairs on the ground - however it would be the same idea for HS lifts without rails. I don't know if Poma designs their opening/closing rails and the rest of the terminals to allow reverse operation.

I guess it would work the same for fixed grips, but can some fixed grips run backwards?

I think that Poma could do it if they wanted to, their open/close rails seem fine for reverse op, but that is as far as I know.

You might also put carriers on the ground if you want to completely remove the carriers on a HS lift with only a semi-circle rail. I think that those are standard, since they are called "emergency rails" on this site. I guess that a resort could order a rail designed for ordering carriers if they wanted to.

I watched Telecabin Expresse (Doppelmayr 8-passenger Gondola) at Tremblant run in reverse (and forward, and reverse, and forward, and reverse) when two cabins colided in the terminal and couldn't make it around the corner. :)

-Iain

highspeedquad, on Mar 8 2005, 08:22 PM, said:

That's what I meant when I said silverlode/motherlode can run backwards - they are FG YAN triples :)

We ran K-lift backwards a few years ago to put carriers back on line (see Allan's post for why that was better), but there was a lot of work involved. We had to disable all rollback sensors and switch the leads on the motor to make it happen. On Doppelmayrs and apparently CTECs there is a current-reversing contactor in the drive cabinet that eliminates the hard part of the operation. Also, when you turn the switch on the cabinet from normal to reverse, it automatically disables the rollback sensors.
I'm getting the sense that Poma is alone in not having a reverse-capable detachable lift, but from my standpoint it's just as well. One less subsystem to worry about. If we were to take all the carriers off line we'd just have to make certain that they were in forward order when we stacked them. Plus our rails are all complete turnarounds, so we could store a few on the rail in proper order and then refill the rail when it gets empty. When we pick the carriers up off the ground we would put them in correct order on the rail.

Do Poma FG run backwards? I'm guessing not but I wouldn't know.

Only as I've described above, so in general practise, no.

the reverse operation is nessary for detachables with dead end storage rails a loop rail wouldn't need this feature.. also dead end rails take up less space so are often prefered.

I'm not getting this topic super well. Can lifts run backwards (particularly high speed lifts)?

Yes, that's why when you get on some high-speed quads, there is a sign that says this lift may run in reverse. They are very common on the Doppelmayr lifts.

SkiBachelor, on Mar 9 2005, 05:12 PM, said:

It really annoys me that once at A-basin, they didn't put the lift in reverse after some girl went around the bullwheel. That really annoyed me (particularly because I was in dire need of the bathroom). Anyway, can Yans run in reverse (like the Norway at A-Basin).

It may just have been that the girl was on a lift without reverse op. capability.

Would this be how Poma does their dead-end rails? It seems that all of the chairs would end up in the wrong order. Is there something I'm not getting here?

Again, does anyone know why Poma doesn't have their lifts go backwards? Is it just the fact that there would be one less system, or is there more to it?
This post has been edited by highspeedquad: 09 March 2005 - 04:41 PM

The Poma one isn't a dead-end rail, the chairs can get back into the other side of the terminal
For the DV trivia question, I would guess Viking and Crown Point too, with the two newest motor rooms (right?) or maybe Sterling and Mayflower, because they are kinda unique with the black sheaves

But the storage rail itself is a dead-end rail. The carriers can still get back on, but it would seem that like this it would ge confusing. It seems that this would be how Poma does their dead-end rails, they have to make some modifications, because they don't run in reverse.

A couple of things need clarifying here.
The 'storage' rail seen above is intended for the work chair and to get a carrier into the adjacent building for maintenance. (If you don't know where this is, it's the top of Super Bee). It could be used for storing chairs but we have a perfectly good haul rope to do that. I'm sorry you were annoyed that A-Basin didn't simply back up the lift when the girl went around the bullwheel. It is a common misconception that operators can do this. As we've discussed, most lifts do not have reverse capability, and even if this one did it is far easier to have the operator go out and assist the guest off the chair. Finally, Poma probably (my speculation here) does not have reverse-capable lifts for the same reason most manufacturers don't- one less subsystem and the fact that a loaded lift is capable of rolling back out of control once rollback safeties are disabled. Doppelmayr seems to have found a way around the second concern, but there is less engineering involved if you simply don't do it. Sure, it's easier to store chairs if you don't have to worry about which order they go back in on, but as a practical matter most areas don't ever take more than one or two carriers off-line anyway.

Hi
I'll try to sort this out a little.

FIXED GRIPS - no limitation on direction due to grip construction. Only thing to worry about is the anti rollack device. Yans have dogs on the gearbox that must be removed before they can be run in reverse, and you must modify to motor wiring as they don't have a reverse mode.

DETACHABLES - Grip and rail design is a limitation. POMAS cannot go in reverse EVER as the grip will not transport through the pressure rail. Doppelmayrs grips can go through the pressure rail in either direction. I don't know about garaventas.
Then you get to anti rollbacks. Pomas have built in dogs like yans because they can't go in reverse. Doppelmayr's older lifts have a dog that can be pulled out with a handle. Newer lift have no dog only roll back brakes.

Reverse mode - If a lift is capable, the manufacturer will install a reverse mode which tells the drive to go backwards and bypass the roll back fault (Dopps). Pomas have no reverse mode because the can't go backward.

Parking- Doppelmayr run backward to feed chairs on line. Our pomas have a park rail that is a loop. the chairs are driven off on forwards, pushed around the loop and put on forwards (separate park and feed rails)

Operations - You really want to avoid running a lift in reverse if you can because people will think its an uncontrolled roll back and jump off. We used to have the "normal operation in reverse" signs but got rid of them. If we ever have to run a detachable in reverse (extremely rare) we get the patrol to ski the line with a loudhailer first to tell everyone.

The particular reason for pomas not going backward is the pressure rail is too steep where the grip is closing in forward operation. In reverse the steep angle applies too much forrce too quickly to the op roller. (pomas have a direct acting operating "arm" hence the steel roller on top.)

:D