101 replies to this topic

[Alexvb222000]

Hi,

My name is Alex and I'm going to be building a 1,000 ft. rope tow before oct. 2004.
:help: I need some help though. :help:

My first question is what is the car hub with a flat back that bolts/welds to the post called and were can I get it ? ( I will post pics of what I'm talking about by next wed., but if you know let me know)

Also what type of rope is the best to use now-a-days? I know that they used to use manila rope but I was wandering if I could use something that would not splinter (it dose splinter right?), or asorb water as much. But it still needs to have the low streach, and high tension strenght factors. Is there a rope like that out?

I can buy the manila for 94$ a spool (600' spool) that is 3/4in. thick. any thicker and the price goes WAY up. But then I'll need to splice four places in the rope in order to get the total 2000' foot lenght. Does anyone know of a cheaper place to get it from?

I will be useing old telephone poles that are cut in to 10' long sections. They will be driven into the ground about 2' with cement around them to hold them in place.
These are good to use right?

There will be 20 posts. On top the 'hub' and rim go. Thats were my problem is.
I can not find the hub anywhere! It looks like this.VVVVVVV (I drew it)


 untitled.JPG (16.33K)
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Then I'll have a little shack~What HP do I need min?~ (not that I expect anyone to really know) with a junked up car or tractor inside.
For about 5-10 people at a time to be pulled up a 1,000ft. Slope. I know that an electric motor is out of the question because 3 phase power costs too much so I can deal with a gas or desil powered engine that is muffled.

At first I thought that a 20 hp gas lawn tractor may do it but know I am haveing second thoughts. I really want to use a tractor though becasue of the advantage of the way that it is powered. (stays same speed all the time) Does anyone know if you can do that for a car? dumb question.

Let me know what you think and if you have any answers, Please help me out.

Thanks,
Alex

[SkiBachelor]

Hey Alex, welcome to the forum. I'm sure there might be a few people that might be able to help you out on this forum, but most of the lift mechanics here no longer work on rope tows since they have pretty much been replaced by the handle tow.

Alex, I was wondering, do you think you could take some pictures of your rope tow while you build it? I think it would be cool to have a feature article or something on how to build a rope tow. This way, when another person comes along and wants to build his/her own rope tow, it would be already laid out for them. :)

[ISMrider]

Hello alex, I see you are going for your own backyard ski area. I am also building a rope tow but mine will be 100 feet long and with an 5HP electric motor. I would like to help you but I have the same questions you do. I think your best bet would be to try to contact these guys http://www.polarpeak.com/ or maybe email Woodbury Ski Area because they built a rope tow that seems to match your description. Best of luck to you

[SkiBachelor]

Now that I think of it, Skier2 (the other Skier2) wanted to build his own rope tow. He was talking about buying a motor of Ebay.com because they are so cheap on there.

[edmontonguy]

I'm not a lift mechanic or have i ever built a rope tow but i've seen a few home made ropetown in and around the edmonton area. 300 meters is one hefty distance for a rope tow. Most of the ones i have seen have minimal tension and therefore sag requireing the need for a modestly curved slope with a rather tall vertical bulwheel at the top terminal. These use large 1-1/2 inch diameter ropes and are aranged so that the rope is going up hill on the bottom and traveling driectly above the rider back down to the station. If i have a chance i'll get a good photo of the rabbit hill setup which uses a rather unique system for their 100m long ropetow.

For the length you would need it would have to be tensioned highly like a handle tow to keep the haulrope parrallel to the slope at all times. For drives it depends on access and costs. The most likely setup you might consider is using the rear axel of an old farm tractor to drive the rope.

Good luck on your endevours!

[crazyskier91]

Depending on how far you live from here in NJ I know a place where you could get all of the hubs you wanted, In fact a lot of lost areas you could go to and borrow thier car hubs, Tip:Make sure it is a lost ski area.

[book]

Although it is quite a distance, I'm not so sure that tensioning would be terribly important, as long as you made sure that skiers remained well clear of the line, and instructed riders to make sure they ski straight up the hill.

Assuming you have a bullwheel at the top, you could use a series of bow/keel rollers (or similar from boat trailers) in a box type arrangement to keep the haul rope aligned with the bullwheel regardless of how straight the uphill rope was.

I'm no expert and I'm not an engineer (yet), but I'd certainly like to help you out some more, and I think making a skilifts.org feature article would be great.

[Kicking Horse]

instand of a rope tow why not a handle tow?????

[ISMrider]

because handle tows require a special bullwhell and a ton of tension so the cable doesn't slip.

[Kicking Horse]

ok

[mbernstein]

Hello Alex!!! (remember me?) Umm.. where to start,

I, myself am working on the infamous "ropetow project", and well, I havn't quite gotten up to the point I would like to be at right now. I just came back from camp, so I now have the time to work on mine. TO THE POINT, I already have gone through about half-a-dozen months worth of research, so here is what I know:

2-3 HP motor/engine should be more than enough for 1-2 people on a pretty steep hill (so try a 10 HP for 5-10 people)

1/2 - 1 inch rope should be a good width. Don't to cable rope.

Someone said before about a handle tow. To make things simple, don't put any grip on the cable (or a handle) unless you bought that from an actual ropetow company. Actually, don't put any handle on the cable of any kind or else there is a higher chance that it could get stuck on the sheaves or bullwheels.

I'd try to get the manila rope from the Home Depot, or mcmaster

You might need some tensioning because of the great length. Try a some sort of a counter-weight set up on the return bullwheel.


If you need any more advice, ask me.

[edmontonguy]

Some more help on a rope tow setup.

An ideal set up uses 5 sheaves/bulwheels/hubcaps as they are all the same size usually. This setup has a permantent tension placed on it by fixed terminals because i don't ever recall seeing a rope tow with tensioning.

Starting with the drive sheave it is conected to the powersource.

The second sheave suports the outgoing rope to height that is about waist height for skiers. The rope is now free of support until it reaches the bullwheel sheave.

The bullwheel sheave is mounted on a high tower of some sort about 10m after the unload point to allow for the rope to remain at waist height throughout the ride.

Optional sheaves can be placed to help carry the returning rope if it sags too much.

The fourth sheave is a support sheave about 3 m above the exiting rope near the terminal this keeps the returning rope elevated and well above the loading point.

Finaly the fifth sheave depresses the rope immediately before the bullwheel so it can make the transition around the drive wheel smoothly.

I hope this is helpfull and i can draw a diagram if that is needed.

[Alexvb222000]

Well,

That was a very impressive outcome of replys for a first post. :D

I'll start answering down the list.

SkiBachelor:

Yes I will be takeing MANY Pics of the project and I might be able to draw up some diagrams with directions on how to build it when I finished. (depends how in depth I will go on this project `probably really far`.) ~I was going to do one on my fan gun -not done yet- but it became very complicated and very $$$ VERY quickly and I have not had time `since last oct.`to write up any type of directions for that yet.~ The only problem being that many others are probably mot looking to spend as much as I. I mean rope is $$$ it's self. So well see.

I have been looking on ebay, but have not found anything yet.

ISMrider:

GOOD IDEA. I will deffinitly contact them and probably most of the ski resorts around my area as well.
Thanks for the tip.


edmontonguy:

That would be great if you could get a photo of the rabbit hill setup. It would probably be very helpful.

Thanks fo rthe extra help too.

crazyskier91:

I live in Maryland, and I would drive that far if I could get 5 lug hubs for free! (They are pretty expensive ~30$ a piece x's 20 or more :o ~)
What place is it? Is there a way of contacting them? But that also depends on how much my local junk yard wants for there hubs.

pusher :

No handel tow because the cable is WAY too much for what I want to spend. Although I was going to do that. Only if I could get another crane cable replacement.

mbernstein:

Yea I deffinitly remember. So you think a 10 hp electric would be enough? Thats a 649$ motor. For a 2 phase 17?? rpm motor. Ebay may have somthing though.

I think that 94$ for a 600' manila rope is the best price out there. I can find anything cheaper.


book:

Your with everyone on the tension/alingment thing.


Tension/alingment:

ok,

Here is my plan to help keep the rope stright and lined up. First before I even start to put posts in I will have the entire trail cleared (starting next week again after I get the tractor back). Then before any holes are drilled I will one run a line from top to bottom, resulting in a straight set up. Two I will shoot a laser down the hill as well. Making it very straight. Then in even measurement I will mark the post holes. (just like laying out a fence) Then I'll drill them. Pop a post in each, useing a level (making it level on all sides). Then I'll pack it with cement and bam a perfectly straight line of posts. Easier said then done.

Then I'll need to make sure all of the rims line up on bothe sides, again resulting in a perfectly straight line of rims and posts. I'll need to make sometihng so that I can adjust them to be perfect mostlikely.

A few rims will probably be use to direction the rope in the proper alingment with the bull wheel and directing the tow line away from the poles.

That takes care of the straightness of the system.

Them my plan in order to tension the rope is to have 2 level post on behind the other. Have a 1/2 wire (have) that goes from the two tops of the post. Then hanging from the wire there will be a couple of pullys spread apart about 3ft. Off of that welded, will be bracket housing a rim with two hubs on eathier side of it to allow it to move freely. No doubt that this will be a bulky heavy piece of metal. Then hanging form the back of the bracket will be eathier a High strength come-a-long (like a winch) used to pull the whole unit back toward the back post. Eathier the come-a-long will tension it or my 10,000 lbs tractor if nothing else :).

That should take care of the tension problem.

Any suggestions please let me know.

Thank's alot everyone for all of the help so far, I look forward to moveing along with this project fairly quickly with the help of everyone on this forum.

Thanks,
Alex

P.s. If anyone finds a place or knows of a place on the net or close to MD that sells hubs or old telephone poles please help me out and let know.

[edmontonguy]

I have no locations for you but for hubs try your local car wreckers or parts salvager. There are a few around edmonton where you can "Pick your Part" and prices are pretty cheap. As for telephone pole you might try asking the local power company as to where they buy their stock from.

[book]

For the haul rope you'll want at least 15mm. Something reasonably static, maybe a polyester braid woven with Kevlar fibres in the kern for good tensile properties. Head down to your local chandlery (although they probably dont exist in the mountains) and see what they have got.

[liftmech]

Hello Alex-
I've done a fair amount of maintenance and operation of a rope tow at Mt Baker in WA. The rest of the guys have a good handle on what you'll need for this project, but I'll add a few suggestions.
-I would tension your rope with a counterweight, either by casting a concrete slab and attaching it to where you would put your comealong, or getting some scrap steel and putting it in a bucket. If you are making your lift 1000' long, that's 2000' of rope and it will stretch and shrink on you.
-Second gear on a traditional manual transmission works great for running a rope tow. It runs fast enough that you don't spend all day getting to the top, and still has enough power to not bog down your engine.
-A rear differential/axle from a truck is a great way to transmit power from the tranny to the drive sheave(s). This also allows you a good place to bolt on a drive sheave without having to modify anything.

If you want I can dig out my construction manuals and find out how big your counterweight would need to be. Good luck!

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[book]

I think a moving counterweight would also help with any issues arising from dynamic loadings on the haul cable.

[Dr Frankenstein]

For the tensioning, I would put the counterweight at the bottom, and the drive at the top. I would use a direct tensioning, like:

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This post has been edited by Dr Frankenstein: 23 July 2004 - 03:54 PM

[SkiBachelor]

Mr. Dr, isn't it more logical to have the motor at the bottom rather than the top? I don't think Alex would want to walk all the way up the hill every morning to start this thing up and fill it up with fuel. :)

This is also a rope tow and not an aerial lift, so you would'nt be saving that much anyway by havint the motor up top.

P.S. I think if your counterweight design was set up that way, it would actually derail the rope tow when it stop and the tension wouldn't be that great. I think John's illustration is the best.

[crazyskier91]

Alex..........etc, Well if you live in maryland new jersey is not too much of a struggle, I was camping on the C & O canal last week and came up to NJ in just over four hours, so you could get up here easily enough. Belle Mountain has about 40 tire hubs, you could get them from the county easily enough.