252 replies to this topic

[snoloco]

You mean something similar to what Poma did on the Summit Express Yan HSQ at Pico? They dropped it below the treeline near the summit and it rarely if ever goes on wind hold now and it used to all the time, so I heard.

It would require pretty extensive modifications to get the Jordan Bowl Express below treeline. That last tower would have to be moved closer to the terminal and a tower with a combination assembly added to keep the line very low and out of the wind. The lift would not be high enough to ski under, so the trail would need to be widened on the opposite side. Could be done, but very expensive and difficult work.

[Yooper Skier]

snoloco, on 27 March 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

You mean something similar to what Poma did on the Summit Express Yan HSQ at Pico? They dropped it below the treeline near the summit and it rarely if ever goes on wind hold now and it used to all the time, so I heard.

It would require pretty extensive modifications to get the Jordan Bowl Express below treeline. That last tower would have to be moved closer to the terminal and a tower with a combination assembly added to keep the line very low and out of the wind. The lift would not be high enough to ski under, so the trail would need to be widened on the opposite side. Could be done, but very expensive and difficult work.

Wind fencing would be the answer. Yes, it would kill the great view of the Mahoosuc's as you crest at towers 14/15, but would cut down on wind issues.

[machskier]

NHskier13, on 04 March 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

Honestly, I don't know why they build a high speed lift halfway up and the triple to the top
But it's probably because 2800 would be a bit much capacity for a few of steeper runs when joined in by a double...

I believe Flying Yankee was put in as is for 2 reasons:
To connect the Attitash side to the link to Bear and
To avoid National Forest permitting. The Quad terminates just outside forest land.

[machskier]

Yooper Skier, on 04 April 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

Wind fencing would be the answer. Yes, it would kill the great view of the Mahoosuc's as you crest at towers 14/15, but would cut down on wind issues.

Personally, replace Jordan with a HSS with the Euro chairs (which are heavier) they use on the Chondola. Switch the uphill side to riders right to max the weight on the windward side to reduce swing into the towers. I would also make it a 90 degree unload and possibly clear the trees between the terminal and the patrol shack to allow for ample unload area for a six.

As to a high speed Aurora, seriously?? Just add a carpet load and possibly upgrade the drive. That line is too short to spend the capital on a detach. My 2 cents.

[snoloco]

Barker should be the next lift replaced there. Old, slow Yan HSQ that serves as one of the main lifts. Upgrade to a 6-pack and reuse the towers. The lift would most likely be scrapped, with some parts sent to the mountains with what would be the 5 remaining Yan HSQ's modified by Poma. My guess is that the replacement would be a Doppelmayr, similar to the Chondola, but with only chairs, no cabins.

Jordan Bowl is a newer lift that is a more common design, so it should be able to run for many more years. Use wind fences or do a modification to lower the lift near the top, similar to what was done on the Summit Express at Pico.

[julestheshiba]

I don't ski there but just out of curiosity do you think spruce peak should be replaced.

[Yooper Skier]

machskier, on 04 April 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Personally, replace Jordan with a HSS with the Euro chairs (which are heavier) they use on the Chondola. Switch the uphill side to riders right to max the weight on the windward side to reduce swing into the towers. I would also make it a 90 degree unload and possibly clear the trees between the terminal and the patrol shack to allow for ample unload area for a six.

As to a high speed Aurora, seriously?? Just add a carpet load and possibly upgrade the drive. That line is too short to spend the capital on a detach. My 2 cents.

I couldn't agree more regarding Jordan. Move the current DS machine to Spruce and put in a six-pack. As far as Aurora, the idea has been tossed around of a carpet load added. Just talk at this point though...

[Sacdelic_Skier]

I think that 3 lifts on whitecap is bogus. get rid of three ancient yam quads and replace with a detach quad. it is defiently long enough. spruce is fine to stay where it is and is tied with the Mrg single as the fastest fg lift in america. if you were to replace barker, I say six pack re using towers but the chairs on barker are great so maybe reuse them over at whitecap. the rest should be scrapped and shipped to Vermont where it is needed. I think Jordan is fine as a quad but if it would be upgraded to a six, keep the capacity low for the few trails it serves. I say Jordan stays where it is for awhile. that leaves Locke. the only problem with Locke is its length. that thing needs a carpet. and aurora? new terminal with carpet

[NHskier13]

Carpets would be great.
(Using length info from this site)
Locke :
4,768 feet at 500 F/M = 9-10 minute rides
Up that to 650 F/M = 7.5 mins

White Heat :
3,665 feet at 480 F/M = ~7-8 Minutes
At 650 F/M = ~5.5

Aurora
3,483 feet at 480 F/M = ~7-8 Minutes (When I rode it it was like 10, but iirc it slowed for a while?)
At 650 F/M = ~5.5

Wonder if their current drive motors can do 650 but just a thought...

Also, the good thing too is that each of these lifts I'd consider intermediate + lifts, meaning that hopefully it doesn't suffer the fate of South Ridge Quad B at Okemo which stops/slows at least 5 times per ride

[snoloco]

As far as I know, the max speed of fixed grip lifts is as follows:

Quad without loading carpet: 450 fpm
Quad with loading carpet: 500 fpm

Triple or Double without loading carpet: 500 fpm
Triple or Double with loading carpet: 550 fpm

I believe the MRG single runs 550 fpm and obviously doesn't have a carpet.


The chairs on Barker would likely go to one of Killington/Pico's lifts if it were replaced. They'd work in the same terminals. Superstar @ Killington and Grand Summit Express @ Mount Snow already have Poma chairs, so one of the lifts with the Yan chairs would get new ones.

[Yooper Skier]

Sacdelic_Skier, on 05 April 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

I think that 3 lifts on whitecap is bogus. get rid of three ancient yam quads and replace with a detach quad. it is defiently long enough. spruce is fine to stay where it is and is tied with the Mrg single as the fastest fg lift in america. if you were to replace barker, I say six pack re using towers but the chairs on barker are great so maybe reuse them over at whitecap. the rest should be scrapped and shipped to Vermont where it is needed. I think Jordan is fine as a quad but if it would be upgraded to a six, keep the capacity low for the few trails it serves. I say Jordan stays where it is for awhile. that leaves Locke. the only problem with Locke is its length. that thing needs a carpet. and aurora? new terminal with carpet

Spruce operates at 450 fpm, not remotely close to being fastest in North America. We ran it at about 370 and bumped it to current speed with the addition of the carpet in 2014.

[snoloco]

Speaking of the Yan HSQ's remaining in the east, there are 6 now. Barker @ Sunday River, Summit and Golden @ Pico, Superstar and Snowshed @ Killington, and Grand Summit Express @ Mount Snow.

Killington runs their two lifts very long hours. Superstar opens late November until late May, operating daily up until early May. Snowshed typically runs daily from Thanksgiving Weekend to early-mid April, but recently started running in the summer, from mid-June to mid-October, running daily much of that time. Superstar got new Poma chairs in 2004 and a new haul rope and some sheave replacements in 2014, so it's going to be around for a while. Snowshed has only been modified once, by Poma in 1998 and still has the Yan chairs. Both lifts run pretty well in their current configuration, so I don't see them going anywhere, but they have very high hours.

Sunday River runs Barker pretty high hours, but not nearly as much as Killington has. Barker probably has more hours than Snowshed, because Snowshed didn't run in the summer until recently.

Pico runs their lifts only 5 days a week from mid-December to late-March, so not many hours. Mount Snow only runs Grand Summit Express on weekends, but used to run it in the summer and run it every day.

[NHskier13]

Grand Summit has Leitner Poma carriers

Also I figured that the terminals wouldn't have strong enough motors, and considering that is the main part of it, that'll be a lot of money if one were to change that.

Also I didn't bother checking the actual speed but I believe Skyline at Sugarloaf ran something faster than just 500, but it looks faster than your average quad for sure.

And I have seen doubles without load carpets that have run at 550+

[Sacdelic_Skier]

skyline is 485

[snoloco]

NHskier13, on 05 April 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Grand Summit has Leitner Poma carriers

It got them in 2011 and they have footrests. Very comfortable compared to the Yan chairs, but still not like the Bluebird Express next to it. Superstar and Barker got them in 2004, but without footrests. Summit, Golden, and Snowshed still have the Yan chairs which are really uncomfortable.

I think Killington runs the Bear Mountain Quad at 500 fpm and it has no carpet. Mostly expert skiers tend to use it and beginners and intermediates use the Skye Peak Express, so it runs pretty well. They run the Canyon Quad pretty quick as well, since it serves only expert terrain. All their other fixed grip lifts run 400-450.

Killington needs lift investment. Ramshead HSQ does not have the capacity for the terrain it serves. Massive trail acreage, one lift. A 6-pack similar to the new Colorado Superchair should replace it. Capacity should be 3,600. The Ramshead quad should be relocated to Snowdon to replace the fixed grip quad. The fixed grip quad should used to get a lift on South Ridge again.

The issue with relocating the Ramshead HSQ is that it is bottom drive, while the Snowdon FGQ is top drive. My guess is a 6-pack on Ramshead would be top drive and go to the true summit like the original double did. The Ramshead HSQ would need to be made into a top drive to be relocated, if they wanted to reuse the original electric lines. The Yan Triple that was on South Ridge was top drive, so installing the Snowdon FGQ over there wouldn't be a problem.

They also want summer bike trails on Ramshead which complicates things if that lift is replaced. My guess is that they'd quickly pull the Snowdon FGQ and reinstall it on South Ridge. Then they could plot out the tower locations for the HSQ and pour the footings. The Ramshead 6-pack would reuse the towers on the current line and get some new towers added on the currently abandoned upper line. The upper towers could be flown with the original lift still there. When the bike park season came to and end, the Ramshead HSQ would be relocated to Snowdon as quickly as possible, with the hope of completing the project in about 6 weeks. It would get a new set of towers on Snowdon and the crossarms reused. They could literally figure out how to mix and match the crossarms and fly them off the Ramshead towers and onto the Snowdon towers all in the same day. It would definitely look very rushed when finished, kind of like Motherlode at Park City was. They installed the K1 gondola in about 9 weeks, so doing a relocation in the same time frame wouldn't be impossible. They'd close the Ramshead Quad in October and reopen it in early December on Snowdon. Ramshead 6-pack would be less rushed and maybe ready to open a week before. They'd be able to set the top terminal if it were at the true summit, which is very time consuming, before closing the old lift.

[liftmech]

snoloco, on 05 April 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

As far as I know, the max speed of fixed grip lifts is as follows:

Quad without loading carpet: 450 fpm
Quad with loading carpet: 500 fpm

Triple or Double without loading carpet: 500 fpm
Triple or Double with loading carpet: 550 fpm

I believe the MRG single runs 550 fpm and obviously doesn't have a carpet.

Out of curiosity-- Where'd you find this information? Fixed quads don't run at 500 simply because the heavier carriers don't go around the bullwheel so well. It's got nothing to do with loading carpets. If you as a skier can load a single at 550, you could load a quad at 550.

[snoloco]

I read it elsewhere on this site that they are ANSI standards.

[Smacpats]

I haven't ridden snowbowl at stratton in a while (Because its so cold and slow) but looking on google maps I realized that with this upgraded, people trying to traverse over to Sunbowl, Ursa and the gondola will be a nightmare (Can't you just see the collisions in your head? ) . They need to really fix this before the replacement. (Which hopefully is coming this summer, fingers crossed).
https://i.imgsafe.org/e4181a6.png

This post has been edited by Smacpats: 10 April 2016 - 10:35 AM

[eagle628]

Smacpats, on 10 April 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

I haven't ridden snowbowl at stratton in a while (Because its so cold and slow) but looking on google maps I realized that with this upgraded, people trying to traverse over to Sunbowl, Ursa and the gondola will be a nightmare (Can't you just see the collisions in your head? ) . They need to really fix this before the replacement. (Which hopefully is coming this summer, fingers crossed).
https://i.imgsafe.org/e4181a6.png

After the winter we just had I would be shocked if anyone in the east invests in new lifts.

[SkiDaBird]

Liftblog posted about Snowbasin. It's been talked about before, but I didn't realize how far up the mountain the Strawberry lift would run.