43 replies to this topic

[snoloco]

As we all know, most high speed lifts are rated for a speed in the range of 1,000 fpm to 1,200 fpm. Many don't run that speed normally. Here is what I have found at some of the mountain I go to.

Mountain Creek: Their two high speed quads and cabriolet gondola are rated for 1,000 fpm. Although I have seen them run at this speed, they often don't, especially midweek.

Hunter Mountain: The Kaatskill Flyer runs at the full 1,000 fpm whenever weather conditions permit. Sometimes they run it slightly slower if they have a lot of stops or if it is windy. The Zephyr Express doesn't get crowds and usually doesn't run at its design speed, although they have been running it more at its design speed this year.

Whiteface Mountain: Their gondola is rated for 1,200 fpm but usually runs slightly slower since its route gets a lot of wind.

Stratton Mountain: Their four 6-packs seemed very fast when I rode them. These had to be running at their full design speed which is probably between 1,000 fpm and 1,100 fpm. Their gondola sure wasn't fast. I didn't time it, but it felt like it was running around 800 fpm most of the day.

Killington: Ramshead is rated for 1,100 fpm, but it is usually run at 800 fpm because of high volumes of beginners. It stops a lot even when running at that speed. If it ran at 1,100, it would stop even more. Skyeship is rated for 1,200 fpm and runs that speed most of the time, unless wind prevents them from doing so. K1 is rated for 1,000 fpm and runs at that speed all the time unless it's windy. Their other detachables are the same.

Gore Mountain: Their gondola is rated for 1,110 fpm, but is usually run at 850 fpm. It never runs 1,110 and is only run faster than 850 when the line gets long. This is either done to keep wear and tear down or because of loading/unloading issues.

What is usually done in terms of lift speeds at other mountains? I would imagine that it is similar to what is done at the mountains listed above.

[SkiDaBird]

We don't run at 1000 in Utah for whatever reason. I have seen Collins, Apex and Peruvian do ridiculous speeds but usually all our detaches run at 800-900. I would imagine it has to do with crowds, low crowds leave little incentive to run at full speed.

[Aussierob]

WB run pretty much 4.5m/s, adjusted up or down for crowds. 4.5m/s = 900fpm. All our detach chairs are rated for 1000fpm.

[DonaldMReif]

I think that for Killington, their policy is that except for beginner terrain lifts like Snowshed and Ramshead, they will always run every lift at its maximum designed operating speed unless weather conditions dictate otherwise.

[2milehi]

Breck and Keystone both have lifts that are rated to run at 1100 fpm. They were all turned down to 1000 fpm. As of this season, Independence was turned up to 1100 fpm to increase capacity.

[mrskifriend]

I remember at Mt. Hood Meadows during a weekday that was late in the season, one time they turned down a lot of their HSQ's to 800fpm when they are all designed for 1,000. That was pretty sad.

[snoloco]

 mrskifriend, on 02 April 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

I remember at Mt. Hood Meadows during a weekday that was late in the season, one time they turned down a lot of their HSQ's to 800fpm when they are all designed for 1,000. That was pretty sad.

This has happened to me at Mountain Creek. They ran South around 800 fpm and Bear around 700 fpm for many days late in the season. These are designed for 1,000 and they turned them up to 1,000 as soon as they got everyone off at the end of the night so that they could flip chairs faster and go home sooner. That is really sad.

[liftmech]

The ability level of the skiers riding the lift does affect the speed. The Flyer is rated for 1000 but for the last month or so we've run it at 900 to reduce misloads from spring breakers. Same goes for H-quad and I-lift. The others usually run at their design speeds.

[2milehi]

I've seen Beaver Creek turn the lifts down to 4.0 m/s at the end of season. I asked the lift operator about this and he said that it is an energy saving initiative.

This post has been edited by 2milehi: 03 April 2014 - 02:58 PM

[SkiDaBird]

The painful one is when LC runs at 600-700 for super high wind. That's a long ride up...

[teachme]

Where are the ethics in this? By slowing the lift mid-weak I get fewer runs in during a day compared to a normal but not too busy weekend day with minimal lift lines (assuming the price is the same mid-week and weekends).

I have never skied in Europe, but my understanding is that people often pay by the ride, not by the day. Is that right? In that case it might make more logic as a slower lift means less rides and less income for the mountain also.

Overall it seems there is an uncomfortable tension in how lift / mountain prices are set compared to what skiers want and expect.

I dont know, just thoughts...

TME

[SkiDaBird]

 teachme, on 04 April 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

Where are the ethics in this? By slowing the lift mid-weak I get fewer runs in during a day compared to a normal but not too busy weekend day with minimal lift lines (assuming the price is the same mid-week and weekends).

I have never skied in Europe, but my understanding is that people often pay by the ride, not by the day. Is that right? In that case it might make more logic as a slower lift means less rides and less income for the mountain also.

Overall it seems there is an uncomfortable tension in how lift / mountain prices are set compared to what skiers want and expect.

I dont know, just thoughts...

TME

At $275 a year I have no right to complain about line speed. My 2 cents.

[DonaldMReif]

 2milehi, on 24 March 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Breck and Keystone both have lifts that are rated to run at 1100 fpm. They were all turned down to 1000 fpm. As of this season, Independence was turned up to 1100 fpm to increase capacity.

I am certain it has to do with the fact that Breckenridge realized that the Independence SuperChair was going to receive a lot more skier traffic as you must use the lift to get back to Peak 8 base after you are done lapping the Kensho SuperChair.

[Nate214]

It's not a high speed but thought I would post any way http://youtu.be/D3Gmsiyoavs 1989 Poma FGQ running full design speed 450HP 500fpm with new ABB DCS800 drive. Although usually run about 90% speed to make loading and unloading smoother but when busy will slow and stop a lot.

[snoloco]

I was at Mountain Creek today and I noticed something about the relation between line speed and slows and stops. Many days earlier this year they turned the South Peak Express down to 800fpm. I noticed the lift slowing and stopping frequently and I wondered "I wonder what would happen if this was going faster". I assumed even more stops, however, I saw that today, this was not the case. It was running really fast today, if it wasn't full design speed, it must have been pretty close to it. It hardly stopped at all when running this fast, even with fully loaded chairs.

When they turned the lift down to 800fpm, the chairs moved so slowly in the terminal that the next people to load would frequently hit the chair in front of them, this sometimes caused people to fall and the lift to stop and slow constantly. When running full speed, the chair in front of you leaves the ramp quicker so you aren't in as much danger of hitting it. Getting off was also a challenge when the lift ran slow. The chair wasn't going fast enough to give you enough momentum to smoothly unload which was especially tricky on snowboard. People would often get hit by the chair as it went around because it wasn't going fast enough for people to get enough momentum to clear the ramp. Today I found it much easier to unload with the chair at a slightly faster speed. There were less stops and slows as well due to unloading issues.

I wonder if there are cases when running the lift faster will reduce stops/slows. It seemed like that was the case here.

[liftmech]

There's a balance, for sure. 800 is pretty slow for a detach, for the reasons you stated. 925-950 seems to work best if we're trying to alleviate misloads and unloads. When you have a large amount of beginners 1000 (5 m/s) doesn't give them enough time, at least on a lift with the traditional 6-second chair spacing.

[lift_electrical]

I would think numbers of cycles would also be a reason. Not a great reason for the person who chooses to ski the less crowded days though!

Jeff

[snoloco]

The lift I was referring to is at a mountain that has a lot of beginners, but only serves terrain parks which are located on intermediate trails. I wouldn't think beginners would be an issue on that lift. Still, they turned it down to 800 fpm almost every day this season which was really annoying as it limited your runs. Hopefully it runs faster toward mid season.

[towertop]

Just my 2 ct. but for our lift @ 5 mps from start up to closing 4350 grips pass through the terminal in a day... with me so far? So 4350 trips divided by 141 chairs is 30.8 times a grip came through the terminal, now include the remote terminal that's 61 times a day a grip has opened and closed take that times 130 days of operations equals 7930. Now @ 4 mps 3100 grips pass that's 21.4 include remote for 43 times 130 days 5590... that's a savings of 2340 cycles a year, times lets say 10 years 23000 cycles saved. Well worth a slower ride. Jut my 2 ct.

[Yooper Skier]

I agree with the logic - I've crunched the number of grip cycles on my detaches in the past, but I also believe that since a lift was installed with design speed of say 1,000 fpm, it should run as such, weather and crowds permitting. I'm of the mindset that if we are running them slower to reduce wear and tear, maybe we should have a fixed-grip in it's place...although good luck convincing marketing! It's a tough one for sure.