318 replies to this topic

[Andy1962]

SkiBachelor, on 11 January 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Panorama, B.C. just announced its intentions of installing a new Doppelmayr ECO Drive lift. I can't see this lift being very long based on it being an ECO-Drive, but I would be mistaken.

http://www.newswire....ountain-village

from the newswire psting:
The chair boasts an uphill capacity of 1500 people per hour with a length of 788 metres (2,585 feet) and a vertical rise of 163 metres (535 feet).

The "average" ski hill in the USA (or Canada) is often less than 500 feet high in vertical. A five hundred foot hill in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and ,Ontario is huge. A 2,285 ft long chair lift in Ontario is very long. Same goes for many, many US states. Yes I know 500 vertical, 2500 feet long is often the bunny hill on "real " ski hills.

Right now in Ontario we have just finished a Christmas New Years period where the skiing was better than many American western states (California etc). We take what we can get and enjoy it.

This post has been edited by Andy1962: 13 January 2014 - 08:57 PM

[Peter]

SkiBachelor, on 11 January 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Panorama, B.C. just announced its intentions of installing a new Doppelmayr ECO Drive lift. I can't see this lift being very long based on it being an ECO-Drive, but I would be mistaken.

http://www.newswire....ountain-village

They have updated their trail map to show where it will be.
http://www.panoramar...Trail_Map_3.pdf

[jaytrem]

Kachine Peak at Taos was officially announced. Skytrac triple.

[TheEpicPancake]

I know someone mentioned the Deer Valley - Main Street gondola at the beginning of this thread, but they also have plans for a major expansion that could eventually add 1000 acres of new terrain and 'several' high speed lifts. The new pod would be south of the Jordanelle gondola, with the new trails continuing down from the Mayflower pod all the way down to Route 40. It would act as another portal into the resort, particularly for guests coming from Heber. The elevation is fairly low over there, but looking down from the top of Bald Mountain, it looks like there's some good terrain in there.

I think the time table for this project is still a ways out, and that the Main Street gondola will probably be built first. From what I heard, the latest is that the bottom terminal would be near the Main Street transit center (to enable easy connections from the transit system straight to the gondola). It would then make it's way up out of old town, straight up towards the top of the Last Chance run, go through an angle station, and then follow the Silver Lake Express liftline all the way up and over and down to the Silver Lake lodge and the top terminal would be connected to the Silver Lake lodge.

Though the gondola would be operated by the resort, it would technically be a part of the Park City transit system, so it would likely be free to ride and run late into the night. I'm looking forward to seeing this happen asap!

[TheEpicPancake]

Here's something I made in Google Earth showing where it sounds like the Main Street gondola would run. It does seem possible with only one angle station, but it would get very close to some of those houses on the first segment.

http://i.imgur.com/L4Kw1Ll.png

[SkiDaBird]

Word of mouth is that the next new lift at Alta is the Supreme HSQ. Alta hasn't built a new lift since 2004. This is completely unofficial and I don't have a timetable but it should be worth noting at least.

[floridaskier]

TheEpicPancake, on 19 January 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

I know someone mentioned the Deer Valley - Main Street gondola at the beginning of this thread, but they also have plans for a major expansion that could eventually add 1000 acres of new terrain and 'several' high speed lifts. The new pod would be south of the Jordanelle gondola, with the new trails continuing down from the Mayflower pod all the way down to Route 40. It would act as another portal into the resort, particularly for guests coming from Heber. The elevation is fairly low over there, but looking down from the top of Bald Mountain, it looks like there's some good terrain in there.

I think the time table for this project is still a ways out, and that the Main Street gondola will probably be built first. From what I heard, the latest is that the bottom terminal would be near the Main Street transit center (to enable easy connections from the transit system straight to the gondola). It would then make it's way up out of old town, straight up towards the top of the Last Chance run, go through an angle station, and then follow the Silver Lake Express liftline all the way up and over and down to the Silver Lake lodge and the top terminal would be connected to the Silver Lake lodge.

Though the gondola would be operated by the resort, it would technically be a part of the Park City transit system, so it would likely be free to ride and run late into the night. I'm looking forward to seeing this happen asap!

That looks a lot more doable than the Wasatch Brew Pub parking lot proposal, which would have ended way up at the top of the hill. The transit center is in a much more central location. Still, that goes very close to a lot of houses, and it would be very tough to get everyone to agree to that. But I like my idea better. This is still a golden opportunity for a joint PCMR-DV project, replacing Town Lift with a gondola that actually ends on Main Street, angle station where Town Lift ends, and ending up at the Empire Lodge at DV, or maybe even continue on to Silver Lake. Drawing that out on Google Maps doesn't cross over anyone's houses. Make it part of the free Park City transit system too.

The terrain behind Bald Mountain has always looked really interesting, and it's the only place left for them to expand to. Summer bike trails go up that way. It's probably 7000-8500 feet, but it's mostly northeast-facing and protected and looks like it holds snow well. I'm skeptical about anything below Mayflower - it's too steep there to really build hotels that the average DV guest could ski down to. I think the area they're taking about is the next mountain south of Bald, and probably wouldn't affect Mayflower (I hope that remains as is). The area between Mayflower and the Jordanelle Gondola looks a little too scrubby and low to make it worth opening up, but maybe they mean that too. There's a model of the resort in the Snow Park Lodge that shows a future lift in this location. Excited to see what they come up with, because there's really nothing on the existing mountain left to improve after the Deer Crest replacement in 2012.

[TheEpicPancake]

Your idea of a gondola replacing the Town lift and continuing to Empire lodge is interesting, but I doubt a connection between DV and PCMR will happen anytime soon. DV still bans snowboarders and I don't think that will be changing. Also, extending a Main St gondola up to Empire would probably cause the need to upgrade Ruby to a HSS or something, to handle the additional inflow of guests trying to get to the rest of the resort. Ruby already accumulates heavy traffic during late afternoon when everyone has to funnel through there to get back to base.

But I do think PCMR needs to upgrade the town lift. Probably after DV builds the Main St gondola, that might come up next. I think upgrading it to a gondola would be good, having a mid station where the current lift ends, and continuing it up to the Summit House.

Also, the future development at Deer Valley is definitely going to be below the Mayflower pod, this has been publicly talked about and reported on. Not behind Bald Mountain. And I don't think the hotels would be up on the mountain but more at the new base area along Route 40. Probably around the Deer Hollow exit off of Rt. 40. I think some of the trails and/or one of the lifts would connect from the new base area up to the top of the Jordanelle gondola also. This would help Deer Crest homeowners get home on days when the gondola is on wind hold (which is often, and then requires shuttling them to Snow Park).

[NoPainNoJane]

I don't think we'll be seeing any activity involving PCMR until their management issues are resolved with Talisker/VR.

[SkiDaBird]

TheEpicPancake, on 21 January 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

Your idea of a gondola replacing the Town lift and continuing to Empire lodge is interesting, but I doubt a connection between DV and PCMR will happen anytime soon. DV still bans snowboarders and I don't think that will be changing. Also, extending a Main St gondola up to Empire would probably cause the need to upgrade Ruby to a HSS or something, to handle the additional inflow of guests trying to get to the rest of the resort. Ruby already accumulates heavy traffic during late afternoon when everyone has to funnel through there to get back to base.

But I do think PCMR needs to upgrade the town lift. Probably after DV builds the Main St gondola, that might come up next. I think upgrading it to a gondola would be good, having a mid station where the current lift ends, and continuing it up to the Summit House.

Also, the future development at Deer Valley is definitely going to be below the Mayflower pod, this has been publicly talked about and reported on. Not behind Bald Mountain. And I don't think the hotels would be up on the mountain but more at the new base area along Route 40. Probably around the Deer Hollow exit off of Rt. 40. I think some of the trails and/or one of the lifts would connect from the new base area up to the top of the Jordanelle gondola also. This would help Deer Crest homeowners get home on days when the gondola is on wind hold (which is often, and then requires shuttling them to Snow Park).

Deer Valley limits tickets sold. A HSS will never be needed there.

[floridaskier]

SkiDaBird, on 21 January 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

Deer Valley limits tickets sold. A HSS will never be needed there.

Agreed that you might need to upgrade Ruby to make my gondola idea work, it does get pretty backed up at the end of the day and there's no other way to get out of the western third of the resort. DV has tons of uphill capacity on paper, but of course the crowds aren't evenly distributed and Northside during Christmas isn't much better than Silverlode at PCMR. Northside and Ruby are the only two real six pack candidates, because there aren't good ways around either of them. Carpenter and Quincy also get backed up, but there are other ways around both. Maybe in 10 years they upgrade Ruby and Northside, and use them for low-budget upgrades to replace Red Cloud and Homestake.

I think Vail taking over The Canyons makes it more likely than it's ever been for DV and PCMR to join forces against the Epic Pass. This year we already saw DV, PCMR, Alta, and Snowbird circling the wagons and offering a joint pass deal, and as more Vail customers figure out that they can ski at The Canyons essentially for free, half an hour away from SLC airport, that might really start to hurt the other Utah resorts. Alta and Snowbird have shown that it's possible to deal with the snowboarder issue - the bigger one is DV limiting ticket sales. But if a Town Lift to Empire gondola is part of the transit system (like Telluride or Breckenridge) and not on either lift ticket, it doesn't need to interfere with DV's limit (which is more marketing than anything, it's only allegedly reached a few days each season, and they barely check tickets there anyway)

It'll be an interesting couple years ahead for the Park City resorts - still up in the air are the Vail/PCMR saga, what Vail does to fix up The Canyons, how DV and PCMR respond (big DV expansion sounds like one of the answers), and this gondola business. But to compete with the growing Vail empire, maybe it's time to revisit the idea of closer cooperation between DV and PCMR.

[DonaldMReif]

Speaking of Vail Resorts, they repositioned the sign announcing the impending upgrade of the Colorado SuperChair to make it more noticeable while you're waiting in line:



For an idea of what the towers and chairs of Colorado SuperChair will look like, look no further than the new Kensho SuperChair:

This post has been edited by DonaldMReif: 22 January 2014 - 08:14 AM

[snoloco]

The new Colorado Superchair will probably be the exact same model as the Kensho Superchair except it will most likely be a top drive lift unlike Kensho since that it what the quad has. They may even use the same color scheme on the terminals that Kensho has.

[TheEpicPancake]

floridaskier, on 22 January 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

Agreed that you might need to upgrade Ruby to make my gondola idea work, it does get pretty backed up at the end of the day and there's no other way to get out of the western third of the resort. DV has tons of uphill capacity on paper, but of course the crowds aren't evenly distributed and Northside during Christmas isn't much better than Silverlode at PCMR. Northside and Ruby are the only two real six pack candidates, because there aren't good ways around either of them. Carpenter and Quincy also get backed up, but there are other ways around both. Maybe in 10 years they upgrade Ruby and Northside, and use them for low-budget upgrades to replace Red Cloud and Homestake.

I think Vail taking over The Canyons makes it more likely than it's ever been for DV and PCMR to join forces against the Epic Pass. This year we already saw DV, PCMR, Alta, and Snowbird circling the wagons and offering a joint pass deal, and as more Vail customers figure out that they can ski at The Canyons essentially for free, half an hour away from SLC airport, that might really start to hurt the other Utah resorts. Alta and Snowbird have shown that it's possible to deal with the snowboarder issue - the bigger one is DV limiting ticket sales. But if a Town Lift to Empire gondola is part of the transit system (like Telluride or Breckenridge) and not on either lift ticket, it doesn't need to interfere with DV's limit (which is more marketing than anything, it's only allegedly reached a few days each season, and they barely check tickets there anyway)

It'll be an interesting couple years ahead for the Park City resorts - still up in the air are the Vail/PCMR saga, what Vail does to fix up The Canyons, how DV and PCMR respond (big DV expansion sounds like one of the answers), and this gondola business. But to compete with the growing Vail empire, maybe it's time to revisit the idea of closer cooperation between DV and PCMR.

Northside crowds do get bad on weekends and holidays, but if it's particularly bad you can always escape down Woodside to Lady Morgan. A six pack would be good there though. I don't think upgrading Red Cloud or Homestake is on their agenda though. Homestake is a short lift and little used, it doesn't make much sense to upgrade.

I think we just have to wait and see what happens with Vail's litigation with PCMR. If Vail ends up winning, you can count on the Canyons and PCMR being connected. If PCMR prevails, I still don't see them making a connection with DV. More likely just making upgrades to their resort to stay competitive with whatever changes Vail makes to the Canyons.

I really don't think a gondola from Main Street to Empire is an option being considered by anyone. Silver Lake makes much more sense for the gondola. It's a bigger base area and can accommodate the extra pedestrian traffic. There's not much up at Empire besides the day lodge and the Montage.

The other thing I've heard rumors about is cutting more runs from the top of Flagstaff down to Empire lodge, so there's more options besides just Bandana. The issue is there's roads in that area, and it would require building ski bridges to cross them.

[DonaldMReif]

snoloco, on 22 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

The new Colorado Superchair will probably be the exact same model as the Kensho Superchair except it will most likely be a top drive lift unlike Kensho since that it what the quad has. They may even use the same color scheme on the terminals that Kensho has.

That was just what I was thinking, considering that all of the high speed quads and six packs on the mountain save for Imperial and the Kensho SuperChair are top drive lifts. The two that are bottom drive have it because their upper terminals are at the tops of their peaks where running electrical lines would be impractical. It is therefore practical that the Colorado SuperChair will be a top drive. I just imagine it will probably be a counterclockwise lift like the old lift if they plan on it continuing to share a shack with the Rocky Mountain SuperChair. They might even reuse the tower foundations, given that the alignment will undoubtedly be the same one as before and you can't move the terminal away from the Rocky Mountain SuperChair because then the Vista Haus would be in the way. While the wooden siding utilized on the Kensho SuperChair was a custom order, I have little doubt that Breckenridge might consider having the same treatment done for the construction of the Colorado SuperChair, although it might also look a little bit interesting contrasting the European look of the Colorado SuperChair with the Rocky Mountain SuperChair's terminal. However, that the Colorado SuperChair will be a Leitner-Poma with LPA grips, Multix footrests, and chairs and terminals that are identical to those of the Kensho SuperChair, is a no-sell given that every lift on the mountain built since the original Colorado SuperChair has been a Poma.

[CH3skier]

SkiDaBird, on 20 January 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

Word of mouth is that the next new lift at Alta is the Supreme HSQ. Alta hasn't built a new lift since 2004. This is completely unofficial and I don't have a timetable but it should be worth noting at least.

This is from Alta's master plan they submitted to the forest service for approval.

Albion lift

– May best be replaced by a detachable cabriolet to

accommodate summer users as well as beginner skiers, and would be

best designed as a high capacity lift to handle a normal crowd if Sunnyside

lift were not operational. (P6)



Cecret lift

– Is short enough that it can remain a fixed grip lift that can run

at a slower line speed to accommodate lower level skiers. (P6)



Wildcat lift

– Would best be replaced with a detachable quad normally

running at half capacity. In the event Collins lift was not operational or

much of it’s terrain was closed for av

alanche conditions, Wildcat lift could

run at higher capacity because of its shared terrain with Collins lift. (P6)



Supreme lift

– This lift services some of Al

ta’s most popular ski terrain. If

the current low capacity triple and loading conveyor don’t prove to be the

right combination, the lift would best be replaced with a detachable quad

that could provide a range of lift capa

city to match terrain availability and

conditions. (P6)



Lodge Tow and Big Grizzly Tow

– Alta and Snowpine Lodges would like

to partner with Alta to replace the tows that give access to their lodges and

are used by Alta skiers for beginner skiing and access to upper parking

areas. (P6)

New Lifts within Exisiting Special Use Permit



Bottom of Sugarbowl on Sugarloaf lift to the top of Collins lift

-

Maintaining the East Baldy Traverse (EBT) from Sugarloaf top to Collins

top is a snowcat and avalanche control resource drain. The rapidly

[SkiDaBird]

CH3skier, on 22 January 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

This is from Alta's master plan they submitted to the forest service for approval.

Albion lift

– May best be replaced by a detachable cabriolet to

accommodate summer users as well as beginner skiers, and would be

best designed as a high capacity lift to handle a normal crowd if Sunnyside

lift were not operational. (P6)



Cecret lift

– Is short enough that it can remain a fixed grip lift that can run

at a slower line speed to accommodate lower level skiers. (P6)



Wildcat lift

– Would best be replaced with a detachable quad normally

running at half capacity. In the event Collins lift was not operational or

much of it’s terrain was closed for av

alanche conditions, Wildcat lift could

run at higher capacity because of its shared terrain with Collins lift. (P6)



Supreme lift

– This lift services some of Al

ta’s most popular ski terrain. If

the current low capacity triple and loading conveyor don’t prove to be the

right combination, the lift would best be replaced with a detachable quad

that could provide a range of lift capa

city to match terrain availability and

conditions. (P6)



Lodge Tow and Big Grizzly Tow

– Alta and Snowpine Lodges would like

to partner with Alta to replace the tows that give access to their lodges and

are used by Alta skiers for beginner skiing and access to upper parking

areas. (P6)

New Lifts within Exisiting Special Use Permit



Bottom of Sugarbowl on Sugarloaf lift to the top of Collins lift

-

Maintaining the East Baldy Traverse (EBT) from Sugarloaf top to Collins

top is a snowcat and avalanche control resource drain. The rapidly

I read that MDP. Problem is someone didn't take kindly to Grizzly. Supreme has line problems more than anything other than Collins as well. Albion can just sit idly, it pretty much already does, and Wildcat will be fine for the time being. There is never any traffic there. So aside from my hearing Supreme was next, it does make the most sense to upgrade.

[SkiDaBird]

Wolf Mountain UT just got purchased recently. I'm assuming that there will be some upgrades soon there.

[skidv]

TheEpicPancake, on 22 January 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

Northside crowds do get bad on weekends and holidays, but if it's particularly bad you can always escape down Woodside to Lady Morgan. A six pack would be good there though. I don't think upgrading Red Cloud or Homestake is on their agenda though. Homestake is a short lift and little used, it doesn't make much sense to upgrade.

Regarding Homestake, it's heavily used at the end of the day by all the skiers needing to get back to Snow Park. It's torture to ride with all the stops and slows and I don't think it's as bad of a candidate for an upgrade as you say.

[TheEpicPancake]

skidv, on 27 January 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Regarding Homestake, it's heavily used at the end of the day by all the skiers needing to get back to Snow Park. It's torture to ride with all the stops and slows and I don't think it's as bad of a candidate for an upgrade as you say.

You know what, my bad, I got Homestake mixed up with Crown Point. Crown Point doesn't call for an upgrade, but yes, Homestake can be torture. It's still a short lift though, I just wonder if upgrading it to a detachable is worth it or not. If the lines are bad on it and all you're trying to do is get back to Snow Park, Silver Lake Express is always an option. Or for that matter, taking Crown Point is also an option.